wing chun and competition

[Graham H]

There is enough work to do attaining a good level of proficiency in Ving Tsun without adding other things. I never question myself for training so much and not "proving" it out in the ring. I don't care about all that garbage.

I cannot allocate any more time to training than I do per week which is around 7-10hrs. 4 of them will never be spent learning BJJ thats for sure.

If people care about competing with Wing Chun then its up to them in which case they can add what they want. One thing is for sure. They better train like an trojan instead of thinking that superior Wing Chun beats all. Most of it is rubbish.

[k gledhill]

What a coincidence. I got one of those too. Except I actually work out with him rather than trade aphorisms.

Also have a WC classmate, Nick Ariel, who has beaten a BJJ Black belt in an MMA match.

Thanks for your advice, but I have much better qualified advisers already.

Go figure.

Back to a-hole-nerlich again. Go figure

[Frost]

Back to a-hole-nerlich again. Go figure

why because you tried your usual trick of name dropping to validate what you do and he simply call you on it and punked you with real BJJ experience and not just name dropping??

[k gledhill]

why because you tried your usual trick of name dropping to validate what you do and he simply call you on it and punked you with real BJJ experience and not just name dropping??

Actually because the guy who asked me to teach VT classes in his MMA org in North Carolina and Brooklyn www.fearlessfighting.com, saw our WSL PB VT sparring and working out daily at Gleasons gym Brooklyn... Is a VT practitioner and happens to be a 3rd degree BB, BJJ.

[LFJ]

There is enough work to do attaining a good level of proficiency in Ving Tsun without adding other things.

Sure. Technically though, BJJ is not adding anything to VT. It's dealing with a completely different situation.

I cannot allocate any more time to training than I do per week which is around 7-10hrs. 4 of them will never be spent learning BJJ thats for sure.

There are times where you may not get to use your VT. It's essential to know what to do on the ground, especially outside of competition. And actually, there's not a whole lot to learn in BJJ to be street ready. You don't need to learn the sportive aspect, which is not street safe anyway, and be able to out roll a competitor.

You can visit the other thread on Randy Williams and see why you shouldn't rely on VT to handle ground fighting.

[Graham H]

Sure. Technically though, BJJ is not adding anything to VT. It's dealing with a completely different situation.



There are times where you may not get to use your VT. It's essential to know what to do on the ground, especially outside of competition. And actually, there's not a whole lot to learn in BJJ to be street ready. You don't need to learn the sportive aspect, which is not street safe anyway, and be able to out roll a competitor.

You can visit the other thread on Randy Williams and see why you shouldn't rely on VT to handle ground fighting.

I won't bother. I've lost interest in this whole topic. In fact I wasn't interested in the first place.

How can you pit two styles together when there are no human bodies around? Its all BS.

Just because one person does BJJ or VT or MMA or anything means nothing until two people physically clash. How can you know until that point what may come?

If you never fight once in your life does it mean you should not practice your chosen MA?

What are you training for exactly? If you are not competing and stroking your ego what are you doing when referring the being a student/teacher of Kung Fu?

All these question are nonsense. I'm out.

[sanjuro_ronin]

For those that state they have no time to learn BJJ or MMA and this IS a valid argument ( there are only so many hours in the day), I suggest this:
Do not learn BJJ( or whatever) BUT learn to deal with it as part of your WC training.
It is NOT hard for any school to invite in a skilled practitioner of another art and get some lessons on how to deal with that system.

[LFJ]

How can you pit two styles together when there are no human bodies around? Its all BS.

Just because one person does BJJ or VT or MMA or anything means nothing until two people physically clash. How can you know until that point what may come?

Don't know what you're talking about, pitting styles together. I'm just suggesting VT & BJJ make a good combo for street self-defense, to address standing and ground.

[Wayfaring]

For those that state they have no time to learn BJJ or MMA and this IS a valid argument ( there are only so many hours in the day), I suggest this:
Do not learn BJJ( or whatever) BUT learn to deal with it as part of your WC training.
It is NOT hard for any school to invite in a skilled practitioner of another art and get some lessons on how to deal with that system.

I want to try to be productive with ground skills advice. So here goes. Yes, it's likely that everyone here spends most to all of their time developing WCK skills. So to round that out and get exposure to ground skills, my recommendation would be to budget your time 1st. 10% of time isn't unreasonable to spend on developing skills to deal with the minions of kimono-wearing sport BJJ fighters that you might possibly encounter in "da street".

Next, learn the defense portion of the ground game. How to protect your neck from chokes and limbs from locks. How to escape and get to your feet. How to not get taken down. Self-defense BJJ, not sport BJJ. For distance learning / more value for $ / etc. Gracie University and the Combatives program is a great intro. 23 lessons I believe. Buy the DVD's (one person in your school - chip in) or have one person sign up for online. Then practice one combatives lesson in your 10% time. Rener and Ryron have enough guided live drilling that will help you more than other resources. Train this at home and together. Gracie University also has the concepts of "Gracie garages" where it's just a bunch of people in a garage and a mat. I've been to a couple of these, and they are cool - just a couple people and a garage mat and a DVD player/TV.

Why am I advising this? Because there are real problems here. WCK sifus don't know how to add this in. WCK students don't know what to do to plug the gaps. Unlike TKD instructors they also don't know how to outsource a ground program.

[Vajramusti]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
For those that state they have no time to learn BJJ or MMA and this IS a valid argument ( there are only so many hours in the day), I suggest this:
Do not learn BJJ( or whatever) BUT learn to deal with it as part of your WC training.
It is NOT hard for any school to invite in a skilled practitioner of another art and get some lessons on how to deal with that system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A sensible idea.

[Wayfaring]

I cannot allocate any more time to training than I do per week which is around 7-10hrs. 4 of them will never be spent learning BJJ thats for sure.

Valid and universal point.

My suggestion @10hrs/wk would be 1 hour/wk spent in dealing with the ground game. If all you did was perfect a technical sprawl and work technical standups I think you would see major advancements inside of 3 months.

In BJJ we deal with this issue with Judo. Need to deal with the throws, no time to rank up or spend massive time learning. So we pick 3-5 complementary competition throws and drill them until we can hit them.

[GlennR]

Valid and universal point.

My suggestion @10hrs/wk would be 1 hour/wk spent in dealing with the ground game. If all you did was perfect a technical sprawl and work technical standups I think you would see major advancements inside of 3 months.

In BJJ we deal with this issue with Judo. Need to deal with the throws, no time to rank up or spend massive time learning. So we pick 3-5 complementary competition throws and drill them until we can hit them.

I see your point but im thinking G only wants to do his VT... which is his choice and totally fine.

[Graham H]

I see your point but im thinking G only wants to do his VT... which is his choice and totally fine.

Yes I have no time for anything else. I also play league squash which sucks up the hours.

Squash! Now thats a good cross training way to improve VT!!! F**k BJJ

[Wayfaring]

Squash! Now thats a good cross training way to improve VT!!! F**k BJJ

Great game. More cardio than racquetball as there's a lot more front and back running. I haven't played in prob 4 yrs.

[Graham H]

Great game. More cardio than racquetball as there's a lot more front and back running. I haven't played in prob 4 yrs.

A lot of cardio. Short bursts and enegry sapping rallies. Start/stop speed increased. Small direction changes. Focus, strategy and tactics.................the same things as Ving Tsun.