Is stance training the worst way to stregthen your legs?

[MaFuYee]

everyone seems to have put up very good posts on this thread. wow! must be a cold day in hell. haha!

i think one aspect that has been overlooked is the fact that horse stance training was often used to test ones sincerity and virtue, as well as to develop a strong mind and body.

i believe the people who are against stance training either never did a whole lot of it, and or never stuck with the school long enough to get a full appreciation of the exercise.

it is true that just holding a horse stance is not going to make you a great fighter, and one does have to learn how stances were meant to be used.
strong legs developed from horse stance training does develop power, as power is generated from the legs/ground, and is very strong and stable in 2 directions, left and right, but against a trained fighter who knows how, it is a simple matter to just attack the weak angles.
kung fu is taught in phases, and none should be neglected. it is those that don't stick with a school long enough that never get the useage aspect of stances.
e.g. most people are familiar with the dragon stance, but often times they don't know how it is used.
as a rank beginner you will be taught to use it in retreating, but how often do you see that done?
stay long enough, and you will learn the coiling energies that are used in the dragon stance for throwing.
but to have this knowldge without the development aspect is incomplete and of little value in dire situations.
you need both the conditioning and the applications.
all the conditioning in the world won't save you from a person who has both.

[tricky-fist]

Just to clear up some misconceptions hereÂ…

I think IÂ’m coming off as some punk who thinks standing in one position for extended periods of time is useless and thatÂ’s all my Sifu is making me do.

Let’s start with the fencing. Sifu Able, I respect your views and I take your point about keeping the lunge in fencing; however, they will not stay in that lunge to the same extent that a kung-fu practitioner would. If you doubt my coach’s ability, well, take it up with him: he’s the Olympic coach for Canada and he was ‘traditionally’ trained in Europe. A lunge is only as good as it’s recovery. Spending too much time just sitting there in the lunge is useless unless you train how to get the hell out of there. (sorry, that came across a bit cranky)

The difference between kung-fu and fencing though is the variety of movement, and you and all the other posters have made very good points, effectively relating to me the importance of seeking proper footwork and rooting through a variety of exercises, and not stance training alone.

I was trying to see – and I worded my question poorly and for that I apologize – if it was possible to build exceptional leg strength through static stance training alone. Someone asserted as much to me a couple of days ago.

DonÂ’t worry guys, I diligently practice my stance training in conjunction with footwork on a daily basis. But can any of you really blame me for asking when the entire concept seems so incredibly foreign in comparison to my past experiences?

Thanks at any rate for all of your answers,

Respects,
TF


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Art is limitation; the essence of any picture is the frame - G.K Chesterson

[Braden]

Just to add in my 2 cents...

I fenced for five years and we actually did hold a static en-guard and lunge position for as long as we could. This started on day 1 and continued through every day of my formal training. It has always made me appreciate the irony when people went on about the uselessness of ancient stance-training methods compared to the modern exercises used in western martial arts.

As for stance training in the CMAs, I have been taught it is for building correct structure/posture rather than simply strengthening the legs. If you want muscular legs, do squats. In our stance-training we have the goal of remaing utterly relaxed, with no tension in our legs whatsoever.

Of course, these are so-called internal methods, so they might be different than external stance-training (something which I have expected since reading various posters comments on the issue in this thread and others).

Cheers.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Most CMA arts talk about being able to conect the upper and lower body to gernarate power and chanleing this out to the hands or feet and expressing this as a pluse (fa-jing) of power. I don't belive this is possible with out understanding /ablilty the concept of rooting/ finding your centure and also being able to find the centure of the oppenet.

either you train stances in the begining building the concepts and foundation or you train it later on when you find that some of the tech. your learning don't quite work right. Either way untill you devlope the concepts and some ablity to root, your taining can be come very confused.

Training the stances dose not have to be some type of indureance test, just remember what your training for.

just some other ideas to some of the good points mentioned already.

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enjoy life

bamboo leaf

[This message has been edited by bamboo_ leaf (edited 08-11-2000).]

[Royal Dragon]

Hello, everyone!!
I would like to say those who are pro stances are really well written, I esecially like the explenation from Sifu Abel. One thing I see as missing however is that a variety of stances must be practiced. Yes the 1/2 hour horse stance is important. There is nothing that develops over all power like that one, but the Shaolin have dozens of stances that are held. The 18 Louhan hands has 36 postures that are sequentialy held for 3 to 5 minutes each. This works the body in all ranges. The other issue is joint development. the joints are often damaged by impact type excersises like running or areobics etc. But stance trainning is a constant, continuas pressure that does not have the jarring dammaging shock of other excersises. This builds strong joints as opposed to dammaging them. I have actually rehabilitated a knee injurie with deep stance trainning. Some stances are better for the knees like the twisted horse stance and others are for the hipps like the cat stance (try leanning back on that one with the hipps yet leanning forward (sideways) with the body, you should feel like the rear hipp joint is under great pressure. Now hold that pressure for two minutes three times a week for 4 months).
Many have multiple purpuse's depending on the corrections you are useing at the moment. Stance trainning also loosenes the joints for greater range of motion, in addition to regular flexibility trainning, thus giving you a much more rounded work out The easier it is to move, the less of your own strength you waste on your own efforts to move, and the more strength you have to channel into your attacks or defenses. Stance trainning is a very deep discapline indeed!!!!

Peace,
Royal Dragon

[8stepsifu]

Stancework=stability for throwing,striking power, and alligns the body for some good old fashioned chi flow. One of the other great things about stance training is that it gives you an added dimention in fighting. How many tai boxers can fight in a low fighting stance comfortably? If a Kung fu fighter comes inside and drops low, he can switch between high and low as well as left to right. This is a tremendous advantage when throwing is put into the picture. If your in a ring where there is a no throwing rule than hit the weight room. If stability and wider fighting range is a priority then it's time to hit the stance work.