Good article on Wing Chun and MMA

[wingchunIan]

Of course there are many other things besides power generation. However, when it comes to unarmed striking (grappling is a slightly different matter), power generation is huge.

That's one reason you see so many inexperienced fighters begin to flail when they first fight or spar full contact. They quickly realize they need a lot more power and revert to the natural instinct (flailing) to produce that power.

That's the same reason so many people who try to fight with wing chun end up fighting "without wing chun."

Absolute nonsense. The reason for the phenomenon you describe is nothing to do with power generation, it is to do with length of time training, how ingrained the shapes etc are and how often you have exposed your training to pressure. People grow up learning to punch via movies, watching sport and milling in school playgrounds. When pressure is applied you resort to instinct unless you have replaced it with other automatic responses. The same thing happens in MT, boxing and mma when novices fight, all of their technique goes out of the window and they brawl.

[LaRoux]

Absolute nonsense. The reason for the phenomenon you describe is nothing to do with power generation, it is to do with length of time training, how ingrained the shapes etc are and how often you have exposed your training to pressure. People grow up learning to punch via movies, watching sport and milling in school playgrounds. When pressure is applied you resort to instinct unless you have replaced it with other automatic responses. The same thing happens in MT, boxing and mma when novices fight, all of their technique goes out of the window and they brawl.

They "brawl" because they have not yet master the mechanics of body rotation to develop power. The "brawling" is the instinctual way to attempt to develop this power.

That's exactly why the wing chun people do this. You can see it over and over again in a variety of full contact settings in which the wing chun guy started out sticking to his straight line punches and then switched into more of a rotational "brawling" method because the original punches weren't having any effect.

[GlennR]

A bit harsh this guy was someone who competed in Muy Thai professionally for 7 years. His points must be worth something...

I stand by what I said regarding his take on WC, honestly, what advice does he offer?

Relax

That's it?

I've read it again and think the post is worse the second time around

[GlennR]

My opinion is informed by a knowledge of how power is produced. Producing maximum power in a horizontal plane requires full body rotation.

Watch Mike Tyson in his early years for one of the best examples of how to do this to produce maximum power. Compare this to the centerline punching of wing chun and you will see the difference.

Watch joe Louis who is another murderous hitter

Full turn?

Not so sure about that... Louis was renowned for his short power, particularly his cross and he certainly didn't over turn if you could call it that....

[LaRoux]

Watch joe Louis who is another murderous hitter

Full turn?

Not so sure about that... Louis was renowned for his short power, particularly his cross and he certainly didn't over turn if you could call it that....

I never said anything about a full turn. I said full body rotation. By this I mean the whole body must rotate. Boxing generally produces force by rotating the entire body, but it by no means uses a full turn.

Full turns are used for producing even more power. You can see this in things like a tennis forehand, a baseball swing, or a shotput. Full turns are generally not conducive to fighting because they make it difficult to maintain defense and put one out of position for follow-up strikes.

Boxing uses full body rotation to develop maximum power, as well as to extend reach, in a fighting situation. These are its strengths. By doing this, it gives up a little bit of ability to follow up quickly with other punches as well as a little bit of defensive ability.

Wing chun doesn't use this full body rotation. This allows for quick successions of punches and a little bit better ability to maintain defensive positions. These are its strengths. It achieves this at the expense of power generation and length of reach.

[k gledhill]

Cr*p article.
Our force in VT is similar to fall away punch with body weight driven by leg muscles/quadriceps. Now add this same concept with hip rotation to face a moving target AND hit it and you are in my world...but not for long

http://youtu.be/cqieQiJD608 fall away is driven by our rear heel into the ground for equal and opposite force back through , wait for it, structure ...

Another clip of Danijel a Croation student who posted a simple bag work out...yes a PB guy. I do routines similar to this daily in the gym.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video...50431433184129
Notice angling turning to hit, fac sao, bong before striking...body weight moving into hits...AND MOST IMPORTANT NO CHAIN PUNCH EGG BEATER CR*P, an common error committed by 1000's , I blame Leung Ting

WSL PB VT strikes a bag like this, I cant vouch for other lineages.

[YouKnowWho]

If one can use his WC chain punches like Vitor Belfort did at 5.05 (39 second in the fight) in the following clip, he should have no problem to handle any fighters from any styles.

http://www.videosmma.com.br/ufc/wand...-i-ufc-brasil/

[LaRoux]

Cr*p article.
Our force in VT is similar to fall away punch with body weight driven by leg muscles/quadriceps. Now add this same concept with hip rotation to face a moving target AND hit it and you are in my world...but not for long

http://youtu.be/cqieQiJD608 fall away is driven by our rear heel into the ground for equal and opposite force back through , wait for it, structure ...

The jab is not a power punch, at least when compared to the more rotational punches such as the cross and hook. The power generation of the "fall away" will never be able to match the power generation of full body rotation.

Another clip of Danijel a Croation student who posted a simple bag work out...yes a PB guy. I do routines similar to this daily in the gym.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video...50431433184129
Notice angling turning to hit, fac sao, bong before striking...body weight moving into hits...AND MOST IMPORTANT NO CHAIN PUNCH EGG BEATER CR*P, an common error committed by 1000's , I blame Leung Ting

That would be a good example of full body rotation. Very dissimilar to what is normally displayed as wing chun.

[k gledhill]

If one can use his WC chain punches like Vitor Belfort did at 39 second in the following clip, he should have no problem to handle any fighters from any styles.

http://www.videosmma.com.br/ufc/wand...-i-ufc-brasil/

Similar concepts but his elbows are giving away the fact he does not do VT.

[k gledhill]

LaRoux;1212110]The jab is not a power punch, at least when compared to the more rotational punches such as the cross and hook. The power generation of the "fall away" will never be able to match the power generation of full body rotation.

Of course....but take one or two fast, in the teeth, nose, throat....not fun, and leads to heavier strikes if required.

That would be a good example of full body rotation. Very dissimilar to what is normally displayed as wing chun.

We do this always because we 'cut the way' iow, across the face to turn an opponent as we strike them. Lot of power....most VT I have seen don't know this way. The majority do a very basic chain step ??? We consider stepping into the 'pocket' an error.

[YouKnowWho]

Similar concepts but his elbows are giving away the fact he does not do VT.

Different "flavor" but the same "principle".

When I was 11, my brother in law forced me to train "1 step 3 punches (2 steps 6 punches, 3 steps 9 punches, ...)" for 3 years. In those 3 years, I had no idea what style that I was training.

[LaRoux]

If one can use his WC chain punches like Vitor Belfort did at 5.05 (39 second in the fight) in the following clip, he should have no problem to handle any fighters from any styles.

http://www.videosmma.com.br/ufc/wand...-i-ufc-brasil/

I would agree. That was a great example of someone utilizing the speed that is available to overwhelm an opponent when one does not use the full body rotation. Of course, it also helped that Vitor had humungous strength as a base behind it.

Unfortunately, that seemed to be a one-off occurrence, as it never happened after that one time.

[LaRoux]

Similar concepts but his elbows are giving away the fact he does not do VT.

Kind of ironic that the only guy to show evidence of using this is a non-wing chun guy.

[LaRoux]

BTW, what elbow positioning would that be?

[k gledhill]

Kind of ironic that the only guy to show evidence of using this is a non-wing chun guy.

....just charging forwards with punches isn't VT, but it seems the uniformed assume so.