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Thread: Simple question

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    ᏌᏂᎭᎢ, ᏥᎾ
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    3,257
    Ugh, it's all too often, even at schools in China. The majority of training is physical fitness, running through basic postures, and practicing forms. Applications may be shown or mentioned, but when it really comes to partner work or sparring, it's all sanda with no relation to the forms you spend so much time working on.

    Rarely will you find a good teacher who can/will explain the concepts and principles of their system and drill you on actually putting it to use. I've come across few in China, and haven't personally witnessed any outside of China, only individuals but not schools.

    I love Shaolin, but unfortunately, it's just about tradition in most cases. Just look at the type of topics we have going in the different forums here. Other forums are discussing practical drilling and fighting principles. The Shaolin forum is mostly history discussion. People interested in actually learning a practical self defense system will be better off elsewhere.
    Last edited by LFJ; 02-22-2013 at 12:54 AM.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    DengFeng
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    1,469
    It is a common problem.

    It is due to several things.

    Shaolin is a very large syllabus and the focus is Chan. It requires very dedicated training. Training once or twice a week isn't really enough to cover all the bases and so things need to get cut. Shaolin form is much more difficult than most and again requires more conditioning than average.

    Add to this a general lack of understanding of application by many people.

    I have the same problem, I do not know how to structure the classes to cover what I want to cover in such a small amount of time.

    I think the best way is to split the class into separate Form and Function classes. People who are into it will do both and those who are more casual will choose what they are interested in. In a form class you only explain the application and in a function class you try to weaponise it. I can't see another way I could do everything inside of one class.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Cape Town/South UK
    Posts
    28
    I think that's true, and one thing that i've picked up on is a misunderstanding of the training - there's still guys around in Shaolin classes who think that this curriculum with no application work or sparring will actually translate onto the street. I've personally heard students saying that by practicing forms they can spontaneously use the techniques when needed. That's absurd, and is actually putting themselves more at risk from the false confidence. One guy I know said that his teacher didn't let them spar because 'the techniques they were being taught were too lethal' and that reason was carried by most of the class. When I attend a Shaolin class it's more of a sort of dynamic gymnastics feel to it with core strengthening in the forms, but I'm not doing it thinking that I'm learning to fight!

    So hopefully there are people here that agree. I taught a black belt Karate guy Lian Huan the other day and his flexibility was so poor he couldn't even extend his leg flat to do a snap kick, so mc-dojo is obviously a real thing. I don't get how no one has stood up to this yet and said 'I thought black belt meant that you are good?'

    I took a class a few months back while covering for a school with two or three wushu gold medal winners and expecting that it would be a pretty strong class I put them in mabu, and 30 seconds later their legs were wobbling, faces going red etc. I usually start a class with a circuit and had to stop that as people stopped turning up the following weeks. The trouble is on every form the guys are gassing out and slowing down, yet STILL get given medals at the competitions even though they are struggling to finish with any finesse.

    So are we in danger of diluting down the real substance of Shaolin training for business's sake?

    Discuss!

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
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    766
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    I have the same problem, I do not know how to structure the classes to cover what I want to cover in such a small amount of time.
    I found that the following is a great way to cover the material.

    My Sifu teaches part time and mostly at a profit loss. He does this because of his love of the art and has a desire to pass it on to future generations. He only teaches three days a week, 1 1/2 hour classes. The three days are rotated in this way...

    Techniques/weapons/sparring. Sparring class rotates forward and the other two rotate backwards each week so that students who can only be there one day a week for instance can get all three classes each month. For those who attend each class it gives them some variety. Of course we are allowed to stay after class to continue our workout until Sifu or one of the key holders leave. He gives a key to the building to those he trusts at about blue sash. No sparring unless a black belt/sash is present.

    The classes always begin with 45 min or so of conditioning and then break into empty hand/weapon forms, techniques or sparring depending on the day. We always cover the applications from the forms on the techniques days along with other techniques both from and not from the curriculum. Forms classes focus on either weapon or empty hand and sometimes both in the same class depending on time. Sparring class is just that. Mixed into every class are partner drills and bits of cross training from many other styles.

    Since he teaches only three days a week Sifu always encourages students to practice at home and it really shows if they don't. In our system there is no possibility of buying your way to black belt. The first test for yellow sash is about two hours and a black belt test usually lasts about eight hours so there's a lot of material to cover. 2nd degree is a two day event. I've never attended a class that wasn't a gut buster and I can say without a doubt that I understand and can use the applications within our forms as well as all the other material we cross train into our system. It can be done but it takes a dedicated Sifu and student to make it happen.

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