WCK and Ground Fighting

[anerlich]

LOL......No, you need to learn from good teachers.

Training like a caveman does not make you highly skilled,

LOL, no you need to learn from good teachers and pressure test what you learn against good training partners. Not exposing your techniques to the widest possible audience is a recipe for unproven techniques. You can continue to delude yourself and others that you are the best if you never actually test that, like your group of the "best" who never work out with anyone who doesn't have the right decoder ring.

I think I said to you that being a hermit in a cave (caveman) was a bad idea. I guess you're not a fan of the paleo diet either.

The notion of this secret underground of ultraformidable martial artists who never show their stuff to or against anybody outside their circle, let alone anybody well known, is ridiculous.

You got to stop with these imaginary friends and train with some real people.

Everyone who competes in anything has psychological problems? Go to the mirror to see who really has issues with competition. Did you always get picked last for teams at school or something? Some other guy always got the girl you lusted after?

[anerlich]

And the funny thing is I don't think it helps them.

Unqualified and statistically unverifiable opinion noted.

[GlennR]

Sounds like a low self esteem problem to me.! Little **** syndrome, small man syndrome, anyway some personal problem with people who feel they need to prove themselves . And the funny thing is I don't think it helps them.

Well lets just give up all competitive sport then, oh and business... that's competitive.
And science, scientists compete to solve problems first... medicine as well!!
And the Romans, they were competitive as well..... and what did the Romans ever do for us!!!
All bloody competitive!

Because we wouldn't want to encourage small knobs would we.

Honestly, do you think before you type?

[Wayfaring]

The notion of this secret underground of ultraformidable martial artists who never show their stuff to or against anybody outside their circle, let alone anybody well known, is ridiculous.

You got to stop with these imaginary friends and train with some real people.

LOL Classic

[Robinhood]

Well lets just give up all competitive sport then, oh and business... that's competitive.
And science, scientists compete to solve problems first... medicine as well!!
And the Romans, they were competitive as well..... and what did the Romans ever do for us!!!
All bloody competitive!

Because we wouldn't want to encourage small knobs would we.

Honestly, do you think before you type?

Nothing wrong with sports, they are great , but I was talking about the idiots that can't see past their nose that try to assign more to it than is there.

[Robinhood]

LOL, no you need to learn from good teachers and pressure test what you learn against good training partners. Not exposing your techniques to the widest possible audience is a recipe for unproven techniques. You can continue to delude yourself and others that you are the best if you never actually test that, like your group of the "best" who never work out with anyone who doesn't have the right decoder ring.

I think I said to you that being a hermit in a cave (caveman) was a bad idea. I guess you're not a fan of the paleo diet either.

The notion of this secret underground of ultraformidable martial artists who never show their stuff to or against anybody outside their circle, let alone anybody well known, is ridiculous.

You got to stop with these imaginary friends and train with some real people.

Everyone who competes in anything has psychological problems? Go to the mirror to see who really has issues with competition. Did you always get picked last for teams at school or something? Some other guy always got the girl you lusted after?

Good luck with that, keep drinking the koolaid and see how much progress you make, then remember what you read a long time ago (from Robinhood ), and then you might reflect a little, and try to find out why you are moving backwards.

[GlennR]

Nothing wrong with sports, they are great , but I was talking about the idiots that can't see past their nose that try to assign more to it than is there.

Make your mind up.

You seem to be saying that its the competing in Martial Arts you frown upon.

But its ok in sport, business and science?

So why is there a difference?

What makes MA's so special compared to the above?

[anerlich]

Good luck with that, keep drinking the koolaid and see how much progress you make, then remember what you read a long time ago (from Robinhood ), and then you might reflect a little, and try to find out why you are moving backwards.

I've been reading your "insights" for a while, esp about chi and the rest.

Nothing there worth remembering, all of it best forgotten.

If you want to patronise someone, try a bit harder to sound clever, because you're failing badly.

So, if people compete and win, they are "moving backwards"? The inside of your skull mist be one f***ed-up place.

[anerlich]

Make your mind up.

You seem to be saying that its the competing in Martial Arts you frown upon.

But its ok in sport, business and science?

So why is there a difference?

What makes MA's so special compared to the above?

Yeah right. Lets' see how much further he can shove that foot into his mouth.

[Robinhood]

Make your mind up.

You seem to be saying that its the competing in Martial Arts you frown upon.

But its ok in sport, business and science?

So why is there a difference?

What makes MA's so special compared to the above?

It's a sport , nothing wrong with sports , I look at it like a sport, same as other sports.

Key ingredient is conditioning .

[Robinhood]

I've been reading your "insights" for a while, esp about chi and the rest.

Nothing there worth remembering, all of it best forgotten.

If you want to patronise someone, try a bit harder to sound clever, because you're failing badly.

So, if people compete and win, they are "moving backwards"? The inside of your skull mist be one f***ed-up place.

Lol.....If you call destroying your body and mashing your brains , so you can say I beat him once, moving ahead , go ahead. ....... Lol

Probably not much in your head worth saving anyway.

[GlennR]

It's a sport , nothing wrong with sports , I look at it like a sport, same as other sports.

Key ingredient is conditioning .

[B]One[B] of the key ingredients is conditioning.

Never mind, if you think secret, non-competitive training will give you a higher level of performance (martial) then you go for it.

[Robinhood]

[B]One[B] of the key ingredients is conditioning.

Never mind, if you think secret, non-competitive training will give you a higher level of performance (martial) then you go for it.

I think you are confusing training with competing , but anyway , if it only works when I am in tip top shape and under 40, ya then I don't think it is worth much. That's like saving money that will be worthless in the future.

[anerlich]

Lol.....If you call destroying your body and mashing your brains , so you can say I beat him once, moving ahead , go ahead. ....... Lol

Probably not much in your head worth saving anyway.

If that's what happened to you last time you competed, then I guess I can see where this morbid dread of it comes from.

Let's look at a short list of MA competitors whose lives have been impoverished, skill diminished and careers and reputations ruined by the foolishness of competing in martial arts or similar competition:

Huo Yuanjia (per Fearless)
Moshe Feldenkrais
Bruce Lee
Wong Shun Leung
Chuck Norris
Richard Norton
Benny Urquidez
Muhammad Ali
The Rock
Jesse Ventura
Gene Lebell
Gracie family
Machado family
Dan Gable
John Smith
Randy Couture
Marcelo Garcia
Robert Drysdale
Kazushi Sakuraba
Genki Sudo
Cung Le
Ronda Rousey
Alan Orr and his students
Rick Spain and his students
Phil Redmond
Joe Sayah
Many others

Yeah, In ten years or so I'll be so glad I aspired to be like and took the advice of robinhood, an anonymous poster on KFO who allegedly trains with and admires phenomenal but secret masters who almost certainly don't exist, rather than follow the examples and obvious road to perdition of those mentioned above. Hahaha.

Demonstrably, you are out of touch with reality and are talking out of your a$$. Anyone who heeds your advice would have to be a moron.

[Tom Kagan]

Ideas?

This thread is silly. There's a lot of platitudes, but not much actual discussion of the type for which you feigned you wanted. What the heck, I'm bored today. So, I'll bite:

1) RNC - first, the non-choking hand is sunk behind the neck. This is very deep, and immediate attention must be give to unraveling this or you won't have time to throw anyone over your head before escaping because you'll be out. second, dropping to one knee like that will be an open invitation for even a BJJ white belt to jump on the back and sink hooks in, thus isolating the body and preventing being thrown over randy's head. this is completely the wrong thing to do there. even the standard step behind the guys legs, lift him and slam that's taught as a self-defense to the full nelson is a more plausible technique in that situation than what Randy is teaching.

Meh.

He's not really being choked. Regardless of how easy it was to do in the demonstration, I observe him tucking his chin into the crook of the attacker's elbow and shrugging his shoulders. He has a few more moments to try something because of this.

Anyway, setting aside further dissection of the mechanics involved in the actual counter of the choke and the throw displayed, what I am curious of is the unbalancing. In the sequence of what is being demonstrated, I see the throw as too late: the attacker has already broken down the defender's balance by kicking out the supporting leg(s) and stepping slightly backward. Without the defender either regaining balance (what the attacker actually lets happen for no obvious reason), or possessing much better mechanics of the throw than what is shown, the throw will most likely fail no matter how the attacker reacts to the attempt. He could probably just stand there and do nothing to avoid being thrown.

As for the mechanics of what is shown, the throw is, in essence, seoi otoshi - a bad one, but that's what it is. In addition to finding better demonstrations of this throw, you can also find video examples of people being tossed off in a similar fashion while back mounting someone in turtle while hooks are already in. It is just as valid to speculate that, under this much quicker standup timing scenario with no hooks and with proper mechanics behind the throw, your suggestion of a counter will likely also fail. He couldn't probably do anything meaningful to stop being thrown.

Frankly, the "what if... what if... what if you try this and I try that" speculation game is tedious and boring, anyway. I'd prefer not to play it. How is balance realistically reestablished before attempting the throw? Why did the attacker step back in instead of taking another step backward?

Without those questions and possible answers, overall, the video is pretty unremarkable - one snapshot from one moment in time. It's barely worth looking at regardless of how much fun anyone may derive from saying "ha ha, he's not a real grappler", then reading through a sh!tstorm of some speaking in oft repeated, vague parables, with others pretending they're straight out of central casting hollering "you have offended the honor of the shaolin temple and my master." This forum doesn't have the moderating policy to support anything really amusing in that vein, anyway.

2) Turtle Attack - randy starts with stepping on the hand, after which ends any valuable info being communicated. He is teaching a smash first, but there is no contact at all between randy's chest and the turtled guy's chest. Thus there is plenty of space for the bottom guy to escape. Next, he shows two "smash" elbows. The first is more normal, the second turns his back on the opponent to strike, with space. This is asking for his back to get taken. The leg grab and smash as well as the supposed ankle break are completely valueless and will accomplish nothing at all. Believing they will do something is downright dangerous.

Again, meh.

Personally, I'd let the lack of top control slide: it's just a demonstration. There are more than a few examples of top caliber people demonstrating various things while leaving top control out. The ride makes it somewhat harder to exaggerate what someone really wants to show for the sake of a clearer demonstration. To me, establishing momentary control for any technique to work beautifully in any situation is implied. There's no particular reason to hold this video to an arbitrarily higher explicit standard to show this.

Still, in essence, this video is just a bunch of random finishing moves strung together. From my perspective, there are no particularly interesting questions asked and none answered. Ultimately, it's just another unremarkable video. But, is it valueless? This question calls for yet more "what if" speculation. It may be interesting to some, but, for me, I don't need more ideas on how to assault someone already defenseless.

However, if you instead see someone trying to fight back, that's your prerogative. I suppose, if you weren't asking me to offer conjecture on such a speculation, I might, hypothetically, agree with you, but that's merely supposition on my part.