WCK and Ground Fighting

[WingChunNovice]

Most people don't dedicate the time to get good in whatever their respective art is. I recently saw a video shot by Stephan Bonnar at an MMA fight where a mid 20's trained, professional fighter ended up fighting someone from the crowd with no experience and 30 years older than him. The younger trained man's ground game failed him miserably as he was beaten with basic brawling techniques by a spectator.

Point is its about the practitioner. How much time and effort do you dedicate to get good at your skill set?

Around 30 seconds in the younger pro fighter does get him on the ground. The older man gets back on his feet with seemingly just "heart" and proceeds to win by KO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saetQnDoEvM

[CRCAUSA]

The big challenge is to hurt your opponent in the shortest period of time. The old saying you don't box a boxer or try to grapple with a grappler is true. A purely WC guy is going to lose the ground game if it turns into nothing but a ground game. At that point having something is better than having nothing. It's also easy to put this into an MAA setting rather than a street setting. It only takes a second to rip the ear off an opponent if one has the mind set to actually do it

[Robinhood]

Angles, levels and physics do not change. Power principals can still be applied (torque, back up mass, marriage of gravity) for one example. Unless you work outside the realm of natural laws I would say MOST principles and concepts can be used in any situation.

MS

Yes I agree, 2 arms, 2 legs, 1 head, 1 body, gravity, the laws of physics apply the same to everyone.

Principles ? , what are they, different how?,

[WingChunNovice]

Angles, levels and physics may not change, but circumstances and applications do. The angles, levels, and physics of building a nuclear bunker are much different than those of building a helicopter.

Although you will find some crossover, many of the principles of grappling are completely different from the principles of striking. By the same token many of the principles of ground grappling are completely different than standing grappling.

Striking on the ground is also completely different than striking while standing.

At a base level both are structures constructed with those laws of physics. Angles are critical in success and opportunity, position recognition, weapon availability and targets are what makes you successful regardless of your position.

I have seen several MMA fights stopped due to illegal techniques like eye gouges, strikes to the back of the neck, etc.

No rules on the street ... If I can stick my finger in your eye I am doing it ... If I have to snap your finger back or rip your ear off I am doing it. If I have to bite whatever you present to me I am doing it. My technique ends when I get home.

[LaRoux]

Most people don't dedicate the time to get good in whatever their respective art is. I recently saw a video shot by Stephan Bonnar at an MMA fight where a mid 20's trained, professional fighter ended up fighting someone from the crowd with no experience and 30 years older than him. The younger trained man's ground game failed him miserably as he was beaten with basic brawling techniques by a spectator.

Point is its about the practitioner. How much time and effort do you dedicate to get good at your skill set?

Around 30 seconds in the younger pro fighter does get him on the ground. The older man gets back on his feet with seemingly just "heart" and proceeds to win by KO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saetQnDoEvM

Hhahaaha!

First of all, props to the old guy for stepping up.

Secondly, they looked pretty evenly matched in the standup skills department.

Thirdly, what ground game? There was no ground game there.

That was a great example of what happens when you get knocked to the ground and you don't have any ground game for a backup once you get there.

[WingChunNovice]

Yes I agree, 2 arms, 2 legs, 1 head, 1 body, gravity, the laws of physics apply the same to everyone.

Principles ? , what are they, different how?,

I cited several above for generating power ... I am not certain of your question.

[LaRoux]

I totally agree with getting up off the ground is the best option for any striker. In my CRCA WC classes I teach takedown defense and stand up drills. This is done live... With resistance. Luckily for my academy we have a killer Jiu-Jitsu program. Many of my students train BJJ & WC. So the students that just train WC are having to practice there WC grappling techniques against my BJJ blue belts. Live training is the only way to really practice. We wear 6oz MMA safety sparring gloves to strike while we do this. My competition team competes a lot in BJJ & MMA competitions, I wish Chi Sau completions were more realistic with its rules... Who knows what the future my bring:-)

If you have teams competing in MMA and BJJ tourneys, it should be a simple matter to post some of the vids of the techniques you are using.

[WingChunNovice]

Hhahaaha!

First of all, props to the old guy for stepping up.

Secondly, they looked pretty evenly matched in the standup skills department.

Thirdly, what ground game? There was no ground game there.

That was a great example of what happens when you get knocked to the ground and you don't have any ground game for a backup once you get there.

Everyone has a plan until they get hit ... that kid could be a BJJ black belt ... what is the Gracie saying? Each strike you take your belt level goes down one? Pro vs amateur ... like I said its about the practitioner.

[Robinhood]

What structure can give you "Rear Naked Choke"? What structure can give you "Full Nelson Hold"?

TCMA is more than just to meet you fist with your opponent's face.

Wow, you lost me. But yes structure can give you advantage of not having to be stronger or faster than your opponent and be in control of action without resorting to brawling tactics.

[LaRoux]

The big challenge is to hurt your opponent in the shortest period of time. The old saying you don't box a boxer or try to grapple with a grappler is true. A purely WC guy is going to lose the ground game if it turns into nothing but a ground game. At that point having something is better than having nothing. It's also easy to put this into an MAA setting rather than a street setting. It only takes a second to rip the ear off an opponent if one has the mind set to actually do it

Maybe it's just me, but when it comes to stopping someone from biting my ear off, I'd much rather have a little bit of something good, rather than a little bit of something bad.

[Frost]

At a base level both are structures constructed with those laws of physics. Angles are critical in success and opportunity, position recognition, weapon availability and targets are what makes you successful regardless of your position.

I have seen several MMA fights stopped due to illegal techniques like eye gouges, strikes to the back of the neck, etc.

No rules on the street ... If I can stick my finger in your eye I am doing it ... If I have to snap your finger back or rip your ear off I am doing it. If I have to bite whatever you present to me I am doing it. My technique ends when I get home.

the 90s called it wants its thread back please

News flash i too can eye gouge, rip your ear off and bite you if we meet i the street, only difference is i have a decade of grappling experience so want to guess who will be in a controlling position (in the clinch or on the ground) to dictate who can and cant do the above???

[CRCAVA]

It really all comes down to how actually train... WC sucks if all you do is touch hands all day and BJJ sucks if all you do is roll around on the ground in your pajamas... However if you properly train for real scenarios in there prospective ranges of combat you will be ok in a real fight. The techniques are good, but the scenario you train them in has everything to do with the techniques success ratio. Luckily in CRCA WC we do address these scenarios and train as real a possible. We can't poke each other in the eyes, kick each other in the twig and Berries or bite. But we can say take the fight to any range of combat while striking and train for it.

[LaRoux]

At a base level both are structures constructed with those laws of physics. Angles are critical in success and opportunity, position recognition, weapon availability and targets are what makes you successful regardless of your position.

I have seen several MMA fights stopped due to illegal techniques like eye gouges, strikes to the back of the neck, etc.

No rules on the street ... If I can stick my finger in your eye I am doing it ... If I have to snap your finger back or rip your ear off I am doing it. If I have to bite whatever you present to me I am doing it. My technique ends when I get home.

I wonder who is going to be better at gouging your eyes out, biting your fingers off, or tearing your ear off, the guy who has learned good basics or the guy who doesn't really understand.

[LaRoux]

Everyone has a plan until they get hit ... that kid could be a BJJ black belt ... what is the Gracie saying? Each strike you take your belt level goes down one? Pro vs amateur ... like I said its about the practitioner.

Which further emphasizes the importance of learning to have good fundamentals under pressure.

[Wayfaring]

I wonder who is going to be better at gouging your eyes out, biting your fingers off, or tearing your ear off, the guy who has learned good basics or the guy who doesn't really understand.

You have to consider the delivery system used to deliver the gouges, bites, rips, tears. is it fundamentally sound to allow you to control your opponent while gouging or biting, or is more of an act of desperation?

For instance, under mount. If the mounted person is trained, ripping, gouging, biting has no leverage, and will just anger them and get you hurt. Instead, survive, collect yourself, escape.