2 questions

[Kellen Bassette]

During training however the most annoying I find is injuring the thumb. Where it is tucked under the fist it can get caught and pushed backwards. Especially when your partner is partial to using the elbows to block. When you push through and really try to hit him it catches on the guard.

So much so I have taken to often holding the thumb to the side, or even partially inside the fist (joint still outside but nail tucked in). Sounds weird I know but it has its advantages.

This has happened to me so often in sparring, I've also had to use the "Isshinryu style" to compensate. Unfortunately, I've even injured it in that position as well; on occasion.

What's interesting to me is, almost everyone punches with thumb on the side of the fist, but if you wear boxing gloves, they force you to keep the thumb more on the top of the fist...

[Bernard]

Its interesting to note the historical differences in approach to boxing before and after gloves were introduced.

[bawang]

First, does SS Shaolin teach to strike with the bottom three knuckles for punching?

no. longfist strikes with top 2 knuckles, conditions all 5.

Second question is a bit more involved. I'm curious about the parallels between two similar movements. One in SS and one in BSL.

I was watching a clip of Xiaohongquan today and there's a move that involves the practitioner bringing the arms to the chest, then rotating while throwing the arms out, one to punch and the other to(presumably) add more force to the strike. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E2JeUXQRa8 at 0:23 in that clip.

To me, it looks like this could have been the same movement you see in BSL Tan Tui at one time in the past. Perhaps an evolution over time?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI9dH62UpYs One of the opening moves at 0:05

If not, what is the purpose of this movement for each style? I understand there's a huge article on the comparisons of SS and BSL. Just curious about this movement in particularly, though.

they are all the same technique, its called single whip, its the oldest, most basic posture of northern kung fu, the ancestor of the "lunge punch"

throwing other arm out is the ancestor of chambering, it means fully committed, telegraphed punch at full power, emphasizing muscle power, momentum, penetration.



its a haymaker and rarely used in fighting, used as a feint, or break rythym, because longfist forbids rhythm.

[GoldenBrain]

Here's another way to use single whip...


Attachment 7305

[bawang]

Here's another way to use single whip...


Attachment 7305

thanks for mentioning this technique. this is called single whip saves master, a different technique, but commonly gets brought up in tai chi, because taichi poosies think punching is external.


single whip is the traditional term for gong bu chongquan from modern wushu.


modern wushu uses obscure terms that describes body position, like gongbu push palm, ma bu lunge punch, etc. this creates language barriers.

for example, i learned xiaohongquan from a wushu guy, so to this day, i still dont know what the hell "gongbu push palm" really is.

[wenshu]

they are all the same technique, its called single whip

[bawang]

trust me bro

i kno dis

dont make me pull out documents out my ass

[Kellen Bassette]

trust me bro

i kno dis

dont make me pull out documents out my ass

We want documents!

[wenshu]

dont make me pull out documents out my ass

Only if I can put them back after we're done.

[Bernard]

trust me bro

i kno dis

dont make me pull out documents out my ass

We want documents!

Dude! You know where he keeps them!!

[GeneChing]

Of all the outrageous forum repartee that has gone down today, this is the best.

[Lucas]

for example, i learned xiaohongquan from a wushu guy, so to this day, i still dont know what the hell "gongbu push palm" really is.

wtf is gongbu push palm?

[Kellen Bassette]

wtf is gongbu push palm?

Bawang don't know because he misplaced that document. Perhaps he left it with you?

[YouKnowWho]

taichi poosies think punching is external.

Taiji people think pushing is "internal" (I always put "internal" in "" because I don't believe this word has any true meaning). They don't know that upper body "pushing" should always be combined with lower body "hooking".

[LFJ]

no. longfist strikes with top 2 knuckles, conditions all 5.

A fair amount of Songshan Shaolin material is close-range combat. The range doesn't allow for that kind of punch. The elbows must be down to operate at close-range and enable simultaneous attack & defense. Hence, vertical fist, lower knuckles punching.

for example, i learned xiaohongquan from a wushu guy, so to this day, i still dont know what the hell "gongbu push palm" really is.

Gongbu Tuizhang is not just a technique, but a posture that introduces several concepts & principles of the system, including squared facing, equal reach, bent-arm range, punching structure, and deflections, etc.. That's why it is the most ubiquitous posture in Shaolin Hongquan, appearing at the opening of Xiaohongquan, and numerous times throughout. The basic punching structure comes from tuizhang (not over extended as in modern wushu), hence it is not called Xiaohongzhang, but Xiaohongquan. The fist is hidden in the palm.