Morality in a teacher

[JamesC]

I know this has been discussed before, but what are your thoughts on training under someone that seems to have integrity issues?

For example, I recently found out one of my old instructors, and a friend, is losing students left and right because of the fact he cheated on a student he was seeing(which is retarded anyways) with the fiancé of another guy. The guy apparently showed up at his apartment while she was there. He's also a police officer(who are SUPPOSED to have integrity).

I'm not really speaking to this scenario in particular, but what are your thoughts on this? It seems especially hypocritical in a traditional martial art because of the focus on the character building aspects that go along with the physical.

[MasterKiller]

If you are there for skills, who gives a f@ck?

If you are there to be baby sat, I suppose it's a problem.

That being said, I wouldn't bang a student. Don't sh1t where you eat.

[EarthDragon]

MK said it best, if your there to train under him for his skills learn his skills, dont concern yourself with his personal life.

however speaking as a shifu character and integrity play a huge role in MA, and as a role model this type of behavior should never have been happening in the first place. I would personally never get involved with my students on that type of level, nor should any teacher.

My shifu even said dont get too close to your students, this never make any good in long run.

[JamesC]

I'm inclined to agree. I think it probably depends on your reason for training. Let's be honest, a majority of people that train in traditional arts aren't really there to learn to fight.

[omarthefish]

what are your thoughts on training under someone that seems to have integrity issues?

MK certainly summed up the obvious answer. However. . . .

Nevermind babysitting, I can't imagine getting particularly far or particularly deep into anything at all without developing a pretty deep and personal relationship with my teacher. Everybody needs mentors. This isn't limited to MA.

For me personally, serious integrity issues in a mentor are going to become serious obstacles to a serious relationship. Again, this has nothing to do with dismissing the thing as babysitting. I have never met anyone in any field at all who had any serious expertese who did not draw at some point for a serious relationship with some sort of mentor.

If you're there just as a "tourist" then that's fine. But if you are there as a long term, serious, dedicated student, you are going to be spending a lot of time with that person (the instructor) and if you want to learn effectively that will mean building a lot of rapport which will mean being in a "serious relationship" with him/her. (gotta leave your 13 year old humour at the door if you wanna understand this point)

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Judge not. Another persons integrity and morality belongs to them, not you. They have their own moralities. Most MA teachers do so because it makes them feel special being a MA teacher. They are also too lazy to get a real job. And for Christ's sake, if you are still going to a M A school after 20 years it is time to give it up.

[YouKnowWho]

If your teacher uses you as his punching bag for 2 hours and you still pay him, he must teach you something that's worthwhile for your pain and money.

[Robinhood]

If your teacher uses you as his punching bag for 2 hours and you still pay him, he must teach you something that's worthwhile for your pain and money.

Lol....No, you could just be an idiot.

[bawang]

if you cant fight, then your teacher has no morality.

if your sifu teach martial art without martial, ask for 50% discount.

[GeneChing]

If you are training with someone that is immoral and paying for those lessons, you are supporting immorality financially. Never mind the skills. You cannot divorce the skills from their source. It's sort of a No Mercy/Karate Kid issue, to default to a movie metaphor. As the twig is bent, so grows the tree.

Then again, if everyone could just be moral, we wouldn't need fighting skills.

[Scott R. Brown]

If he will be a scumbag to others he will be be a scumbag to you, if the mood hits him!

Skip the scumbags and find someone with a little integrity!

On the other hand, everyone makes mistakes, if he owns up to his mistake and is contrite, forgiveness is appropriate.

[David Jamieson]

If you are training with someone that is immoral and paying for those lessons, you are supporting immorality financially. Never mind the skills. You cannot divorce the skills from their source. It's sort of a No Mercy/Karate Kid issue, to default to a movie metaphor. As the twig is bent, so grows the tree.

Then again, if everyone could just be moral, we wouldn't need fighting skills.

I don't think people look at it with this depth Gene and I don't think for the most part that people are fully aware of these facets to the reality that is extant in this hypothetiical or real case. To that end, I do not support those who are immoral or unethical. I see it as having a very great skill to be of great ability and to still be upright and of sound moral judgement. That is one of the most difficult aspirations, so when man is there, he gets my respects because of the actions he takes, not the trappings he surrounds himself with or the words he speaks etc.

If he will be a scumbag to others he will be be a scumbag to you, if the mood hits him!

Skip the scumbags and find someone with a little integrity!

On the other hand, everyone makes mistakes, if he owns up to his mistake and is contrite, forgiveness is appropriate.

generally, this axiom applies as does the one about how the guy who treats a waiter poorly and treats you well is still an ass and one day, will treat you poorly as well.

[PalmStriker]

If you are training with someone that is immoral and paying for those lessons, you are supporting immorality financially. Never mind the skills. You cannot divorce the skills from their source. It's sort of a No Mercy/Karate Kid issue, to default to a movie metaphor. As the twig is bent, so grows the tree.

Then again, if everyone could just be moral, we wouldn't need fighting skills.

Have to agree with Gene. Also, an instructor/Master should always be on the lookout for psychopathic evil students who want to use Kungfu for, well, evil stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH9pX0exwAo

[MasterKiller]

What if my yoga teacher is hot and I want her to be immoral?

[Lucas]

What if my yoga teacher is hot and I want her to be immoral?

That is perfectly fine! In fact, it's encouraged.