Shaolin Liu He Quan

[bigopen]

Hi all,

Just wanted to put a few pieces together for Liu He Quan which I've been working with for the last few months.

Does anyone know the background of this form in it's Shaolin version? Is Liu He a generic term for a whole system?

I've only found a video of Shi Yan Zi doing the form but the movements are different - apart from that it's very difficult to dig up any info on it.

Thanks

[RenDaHai]

Can you post a video?

LiuHeQuan is a little unspecific.

There are DanLian (single man forms) called LiuHeQuan

There is a series of DuiLian (partner forms) called LiuHeQuan

There is the Shaolin principle theory of LiuHe

Sub names of forms refer to it often.

Shaolin XiYuanPai Xiao TongBei ErLu Quan is also sometimes referred to as LiuHeQuan, this is quite common and I think you may be referring to this one. (Western Abbey Small TongBei part 2). A good partner form to the very common Da TongBei YiLu.

[HmorenoM]

Can you post a video?

LiuHeQuan is a little unspecific.

There are DanLian (single man forms) called LiuHeQuan

There is a series of DuiLian (partner forms) called LiuHeQuan

There is the Shaolin principle theory of LiuHe

Sub names of forms refer to it often.

Shaolin XiYuanPai Xiao TongBei ErLu Quan is also sometimes referred to as LiuHeQuan, this is quite common and I think you may be referring to this one. (Western Abbey Small TongBei part 2). A good partner form to the very common Da TongBei YiLu.

Ren, maybe is not exactly "on-topic" but now you mention that, i'd like to know about that principle theory and others like that if you know them

[bigopen]

Hi ren,

Here's the YanZi version, Mine deviates away after what looks like xu bu dan bian but I may be wrong.

After xu bu I step back to gong bu with r leg forward, palm strike (as XHQ) then step back again with l leg forward (XHQ style palm strike again)

Mine then goes completely down another path, then comes back briefly with the same hook kick, crescent kick, jumping snap kick combination.

any ideas on this?

[RenDaHai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQEP54fBMuU

You mean this one?

This is XiaoTongBei Quan (part 2). Sub named LiuHeQuan

Together with XTB part 1 (13 hammers) and MeiHua DiTang Quan (XTB part 3) and DaTongbei (most common shaolin form) they form the XiYuanPai (Western Abbey) version of Shaolin TongBei.

TongBei has been a sub style of SHaolin for a vey long time. XiaoHong, DaHong, Pao, TonBei are the 4 principle old styles of Shaolin.

As to the individual history of TongBei in shaolin I think Sal wrote on it extensively. If you do a forum search for TongBeiQuan you will probably find it. I can only really help you identify the form in this case.

If you want to learn the entire system you will find it is well combined with DaTongBei (which whoever taught you this will certainly know). Meihua Ditang is also worth a look.

In your search for Shaolin TongBei you will also uncover the Nanyuan tongbei (southern abbey). That is because the shaolin temple used to have 4 distinct abbeys each of which was different. The southern abbey although still within song mountain trained a slightly different style of Shaolin. They in fact have a more extensive system of TongBei Quan, though it is not always similar to the western abbey tong bei.

Hope this helps a bit.

[RenDaHai]

Ren, maybe is not exactly "on-topic" but now you mention that, i'd like to know about that principle theory and others like that if you know them

I'll expand a little but I think much of it is on the forum already;

The six harmonies are split into the internal 3 and the external 3. They are things which much be in harmony for your Kung fu to be effective whatever its goal.

The 3 external harmonies are that the hand and foot move in co-ordination, as do the elbow and knee, as do the shoulder and hip. You will notice in shaolin form rarely do we stand in one stance and do a lot of hand moves. This is because every movement of the upperbody is co-ordinated with the lower. This means Shaolin has a very active footwork.

The 3 internal harmonies are far more interesting and vary according to the specific sect of Shaolin. I will not reveal the various different versions however I will state the standard version (not strictly from Shaolin but common accross china):

Qi Yu Li He ---- Breath/sensation and physical power in harmony
Yi Yu Qi Ye ---- 'Conscious Intent' and breath/sensation in harmony
Xin Yu Yi He ----- 'unconscious instinctual mind' and 'conscious intent' in harmony

Xin Yu Yi He is the ultimate goal of training Kung Fu. These profound harmonies are not just in Martial technique but in life in general.


The 6 harmonies are part of shaolin theory:

1 truth, 2 extremes, 3 sections, 4 sensations, 5 elements, 6 harmonies, 7 stars, 8 words etc.

[bigopen]

Thanks for the replies, so much information.

Ren are you Chinese yourself?

[RenDaHai]

No problem,

No, I'm not Chinese, but I lived there for years.

[bigopen]

Ren, another question I wanted to ask is who in your opinion is the most authentic Shaolin practicioner who is easily watchable online today?

Shi Yong Zi comes to mind but let me know what you think.

[RenDaHai]

Tough question, watch for the old masters.

But yeah, Shi Yong Zhi (DiaoShanDuo I think?) is a good example.

[mooyingmantis]

The six harmonies are split into the internal 3 and the external 3. They are things which much be in harmony for your Kung fu to be effective whatever its goal.

The 3 external harmonies are that the hand and foot move in co-ordination, as do the elbow and knee, as do the shoulder and hip. You will notice in shaolin form rarely do we stand in one stance and do a lot of hand moves. This is because every movement of the upperbody is co-ordinated with the lower. This means Shaolin has a very active footwork.

The 3 internal harmonies are far more interesting and vary according to the specific sect of Shaolin. I will not reveal the various different versions however I will state the standard version (not strictly from Shaolin but common accross china):

Qi Yu Li He ---- Breath/sensation and physical power in harmony
Yi Yu Qi Ye ---- 'Conscious Intent' and breath/sensation in harmony
Xin Yu Yi He ----- 'unconscious instinctual mind' and 'conscious intent' in harmony

Xin Yu Yi He is the ultimate goal of training Kung Fu. These profound harmonies are not just in Martial technique but in life in general.

Very good explanation!