Could a WCner do any better?

[thedreamer7]

true ill give you that Kevins videos fell into two catagories:
PB loveins and street violance which no one could quite figure out why he had posted.....please dont go down his route some of your posts are actually good to read

So never a demonstration or fight with himself in it? Interesting...

[Frost]

So never a demonstration or fight with himself in it? Interesting...

Nope never

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvKRyTSr5Mo
Thoughts?

If you do not train to fight against something then you will NOT have any experience on how to deal with it.
Now, if the skill level difference is VERY high, that may not matter BUT if there is any decent amount of skill on the part of the opponent and he brings something to the "table" that you don't have any experience with, the advantage is, typically, His.

[Graham H]

If you do not train to fight against something then you will NOT have any experience on how to deal with it.
Now, if the skill level difference is VERY high, that may not matter BUT if there is any decent amount of skill on the part of the opponent and he brings something to the "table" that you don't have any experience with, the advantage is, typically, His.

Are we talking in a competition environment here?

[thedreamer7]

Are we talking in a competition environment here?

I didn't see a competition in the Gracie clip, just a fight. I guess you could argue a fight on the street has concrete, etc, however it could also happen on grass

[sanjuro_ronin]

Are we talking in a competition environment here?

Well, if it doesn't work under the controlled conditions of competition, that chances if it working in the Uncontrolled conditions are, logically, less.
Competition make sit a level playing field for BOTH parties and in "the street" BOTH are free to do whatever they want.

[sanjuro_ronin]

IN short:
If you can't beat someone when THEY are limited by the rules and environment, what makes you think you can beat them when they are NOT limited by them?

[Graham H]

IN short:
If you can't beat someone when THEY are limited by the rules and environment, what makes you think you can beat them when they are NOT limited by them?

Which will bring me straight back to my opinion that until you face them how will you know?

The best you can do is improve your chances through training but that shouldn't mean that you have to study every combat system to ensure your victory.

[thedreamer7]

Which will bring me straight back to my opinion that until you face them how will you know?

The best you can do is improve your chances through training but that shouldn't mean that you have to study every combat system to ensure your victory.

Agree, perhaps just train from being attacked at a different angle...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Which will bring me straight back to my opinion that until you face them how will you know?

The best you can do is improve your chances through training but that shouldn't mean that you have to study every combat system to ensure your victory.

Wish that we could!
But obviously it is not realistic BUT we must keep abreast of what is out there of course.
Better to learn on the mat than on the street, know what I mean?
IF, and that is a big if, we train our chosen MA for self=protection and/or to be in line with it's tradition of being a "practical fighting system" then it is our responsibility to keep it as such.
That comes from hard work of course.
We don't have to drop our chosen system ( unless we decide we have found a better fit for Us), we just have to allow it to evolve to deal with what it may have to deal with.

[LaRoux]

As for the second part of the statement, MMA is constantly evolving. A few years ago the only defence against a takedown ever seen aside from panicked hopping was the sprawl, today it is much different and fighters are showing that with an awareness of what is going on combined with angular footwork and the use of arms to control the head / distance there are plenty of other options.

Wrestlers and those who had a decent amount of wrestling and were doing MMA always had a whole arsenal of takedown defenses.

[Hendrik]

IMHO, lot of today's WCK has become fist art, not even a strike art, but just punching in fist distance kicking in kick distance. There are no solution out of that range , the body is clumsy.

How can tese type of practice play against the full range art which expertise in close body such as bjj? It can't. IMHO. One doesn't even know how to move ones body part in full.

Also, as in the the hook and wing Chun YouTube. The person is suggest to punch others center and that is it. Well, that is to ignore the momentum which has already activate. Such as trying to push away a collision and out of control car , can it be done? Or one end up dead smash into it. That type of theory is living in a momentum vacuum world .


So, instead of go far away, just look at the basic and it cannot be done.


I brought up the snake body crane limbs because wing Chun suppose to be able to use most part of the body to play with the dynamic momentum and force change. That is ability result the development of the snake body. That is wck inch jin. Now, if this ability is lost, one doesn't even have the basic training. How is WCK work at all? You think that Bruce lee inch punch party trick can do anything real at all? That is fantasy.

Some People here don't like it when I mention 1850 , but then when speak, one needs to speak with evidence of what it is Wing Chun of the passed. Instead of define and created ones own wing Chun or chi or .....etc confuse the heck out of everything. But still don't know what is going on.

IMHO, is WCK everything? No! But what is WCK strength and weakness? That has to be clear.

[desertwingchun2]

Firstof all, there is nothing humble about you. Second, your Wing Chun ( i use the term loosely) has become You Tube videos and Yoga Balls. So in effect you dont have any strikes or punches.
And if you are talking kicking, well we all know you are no expert in that arena either. As last time you tried to demonstrate that live, you were flat backed twice. No wonder you will never see anyone.

IMHO, lot of today's WCK has become fist art, not even a strike art, but just punching in fist distance kicking in kick distance. There are no solution out of that range , the body is clumsy.

[anerlich]

Yes. I would make the same shape on the floor as the victim did. No problem.

Maybe if I took up MMA or cross trained BJJ I would fare better

Fair enough.

[YouKnowWho]

So you don't think WC alone can stop you going down?

This is a good question. In order to resist for being taken down, you have to train a lot of skills which is very specialized in the grappling art. For example, if your opponent uses the front cut (Osoto Gari) on you,

http://cdn2.judoinfo.com/images/anim.../osotogari.htm

if you can sink down into a right bow and left arrow stance with body rotation to your right, you can resist to be taken down. Is low bow-arrow stance and body rotation part of the WC training?

http://imageshack.us/a/img860/580/oldpic211.jpg

There are many throws and each throw will require different way to resist. The bow-arrow stance is just one of many skills that will be needed in the grappling world.