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This is also my concern. How hard it is just to stand infront of a heavy bag. Hit on that heavy bag 10 times, and prove once for all that the "snake engine" is superior. If such clip is available, none of these argument would happen. Everybody in the world will drop whatever that they are training and come over here to learn the "snake engine".Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown
The day when God stands on top of the cloud, the whole earth population will be converted into Christian.
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 03-09-2013 at 12:32 PM.
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More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
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Eq1: Momentum = mass x velocity.
Eq2: Momentum = force x time --->. Force = momentum / time
to penetrate and destroy the center of opponent one doesn't have to compete with EQ1. Which is a big person game.
One use EQ2 to amplify force in impulse form of short time to penetrate. That is WCK core and inch power with little female body. And WCK slt snake body is that impulse converter .
As one can see in my yoga ball demo, the force flow can penetrate a two feet yoga ball with a small momentum generate by force amplified in impulse form. That is what needed to do the job as a bunker missile for penetration.
Again, WCK, narrow stance, short bridge, inch power or impulse power, that is the characteristics.
Since Kungfu fighter with more then 200 lb very fit body is here, ask him , how does it feel facing an impulse with a 150 lb body. If he like to share , of cause his freedom to share or not.
No that's not it! It is more like he doesn't understand what he is talking about!
It is very simple to demonstrate his point. Use an resistant well trained opponent or even just a 100-200 lb hanging bag.
That would be a beginning in demonstrating his point.
I have not defended tgy's form and I am pretty sure he was not using his vid to demonstrate Hendrik is wrong or to demonstrate proper use of momentum and force.
You two have erected a straw man and you are whipping it with all your might to no effect because we are all know you have no idea what you are talking about.
Hendrik's vid might be an accurate explanation of W/C principles, but if it is, those principles are inadequate in real fighting.
Just about everyone here understands F=ma!
It is not that we do not understand it, it is that we DO understand it.
It is very simple Hendrik, you can begin to prove your point by using a 200# well trained person, or even just a 200# hanging bag. That would be a good start.
Anyone who has punched anything understands that maximal force is generated from the ground. That means you must have a stable base in order to generate substantial force. Force may be generated using just arms even without using the shoulders, but this force is insignificant compare to using a substantial base.
There was virtually no momentum in your actions and your alignment was clearly off as well as your timing.
If this is the best you can do, I feel sorry for any w/c person that listens to you. And no wonder they are not noted for winning any competitive fights.
Last edited by Hendrik; 03-09-2013 at 12:32 PM.
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I am 245lbs muscular build, Hendrik didn't have to hit me very hard for me to recognize the effect of this kind of power. it's a very subtle type of force that affects the opponent's entire body and it can be direct anywhere within the opponent's body that you intend it to go.
i don't personnally feel you can see the effect of this type of force when hitting a heavy bag, you have to feel it directly to understand what it is.
Last edited by kung fu fighter; 03-09-2013 at 12:40 PM.
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Got nothing to do with superior,
Got everything to Do with max ones resource to play the game in a different way.
In this case, WCK don't compete to generate the biggest momentum, but very focus and seek to use the smallest momentum with deepest penetration in an impulse form.
Last edited by Hendrik; 03-09-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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Thanks for sharing.
Yes, impulse disintegrate joints holding and this disable body integration when applied.
That is why it is Also called shock bounce.
I am saying these here not to say I am good but to describe what it is. There obvious much better wcners then me in this forum. I just trying to tell the taiji...etc other styles the different.
Also, Mike was with Navin, I don't know them until we meet. Mike know about the impulse too and both are more then 200lb. If the small size me is compete who has bigger momentum, I can't even play. I am saying these to show there are different ways of momumtum equation play, not that I am good. But WCK is not taiji or other art which comptete who has the bigger momentum generation. WCK is about focus and penetration to capture center line.
Last edited by Hendrik; 03-09-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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This is not a demonstration, it is a trick. I can do this too and I understand the biomechanics that make it possible to do.
This is not against non-compliant opponents, it is against compliant individuals who are are using poor posture.
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I recognize a bag is inadequate, but it is a start.
The the vid demo is clearly using biomechanics to perform his skill, and I have done these sorts of things myself in demos to students without attributing it to snake engine or chi.
It is biomechanics!
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Sifu Liu is better then me. And he did it in a physics lab start 17.00. See for yourself, that is WCK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVkjj8568d8
Sorry no big turn like taiji requirement.
Also, the observation of the lab show amplified force at the last second for impulse convention.
Again, I don't invent WCK. I am just describing the basic WCK. I don't say I am the only truth infact as in here I cite other WCK masters great contribution .
Last edited by Hendrik; 03-09-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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Snake engine basic Level Got nothing to do with qi.
Watch what I have said in this utube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcxOSqx7KTQ
Last edited by Hendrik; 03-09-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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No that's not it! It is more like he doesn't understand what he is talking about!
It is very simple to demonstrate his point. Use an resistant well trained opponent or even just a 100-200 lb hanging bag.
That would be a beginning in demonstrating his point.
I have not defended tgy's form and I am pretty sure he was not using his vid to demonstrate Hendrik is wrong or to demonstrate proper use of momentum and force.
You two have erected a straw man and you are whipping it with all your might to no effect because we are all know you have no idea what you are talking about.
Hendrik's vid might be an accurate explanation of W/C principles, but if it is, those principles are inadequate in real fighting.
Just about everyone here understands F=ma!
It is not that we do not understand it, it is that we DO understand it.
It is very simple Hendrik, you can begin to prove your point by using a 200# well trained person, or even just a 200# hanging bag. That would be a good start.
Anyone who has punched anything understands that maximal force is generated from the ground. That means you must have a stable base in order to generate substantial force. Force may be generated using just arms even without using the shoulders, but this force is insignificant compare to using a substantial base.
There was virtually no momentum in your actions and your alignment was clearly off as well as your timing.
If this is the best you can do, I feel sorry for any w/c person that listens to you. And no wonder they are not noted for winning any competitive fights.
We'll you just make it clear, that you can only talk about external body power generation again.
If we want to fight with punching bag we use your natural body mechanics, but this kind of force works on alive opponents, not on dead weights, if you understood internal energy you would realize that. Why fight with punching bag ? , is it trying to get you ?
So , this is not about comparing who can lift more dead weight. But since you seem to not be able to tell the difference, you only still using first way of generating power application.
Someday you might meet someone who could show you first hand , instead of always saying no to everything anybody shows you., and
act like everything is a trick that you can duplicated with brute force., but you see , you don't need the brute force if you are using body integration and alive opponent.
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[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;1217330]
1.
That means you must have a stable base in order to generate substantial force.
Force may be generated using just arms even without using the shoulders, but this force is insignificant compare to using a substantial base.
2.
There was virtually no momentum in your actions and your alignment was clearly off as well as your timing.
QUOTE]
My answer to 1.
Stable based is a mistake. Newton's law of Innetial.
Dynamic makes use of instability. Impulse is a control instabity.
The snake engine force is generate from instability, not on stable based. Stable based is wasting energy even just to get start. Using Instability as acceleration. Snake engine is a distributive system, it can accelerate with parallel manner instead of serial manner as a central control system.
My answer to 2.
There is no visual and off timing because it Is time for impulse. Not linear momentum.
It is a paradiagm of making use of instabity instead of stability. Uncontrol instead of control.
What one don't know and can not see will get one. Welcome to the beauty party of miss wing chun? Chaos is power.
Last edited by Hendrik; 03-09-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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I think this guy is just traditional external power generation , not internal .
Not a good example of internal application, only external application.
This is better basic application in simplest form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QpSz...ature=youtu.be
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Sifu Liu above is using snake engine of WCK . an excellent snake engine presentation. And very pragmatic. He have my high respect on his fighting skill. And willing to go to lab to be tested with physics experiments.
On the bottom utube.
Sifu Lim is presenting his refine taiji Jin. Different type of Jin. In today's taiji world sifu Lim is one of the top Jin expert,
he is my sifu in taiji Jin, and I have actually ask him to verify my snake engine year ago. So, by his standard snake engine is an internal Jin.
What sifu Lim shows looks simple because he is the master. Decades of refinement and fine tune, I can't even do it. So, let's not look at a clear 60 feet depth Swining pool and thinking it is just 1 feet deep. One will drown to death if one step into the pool without be able to swim well. Most people can't never get to sifu Lims level.
Last edited by Hendrik; 03-09-2013 at 02:05 PM.
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Its not dataHere is a data support the mis handling of posture which cause disintegration in dynamic.
That isnt data.Take at look at the younger person action starts 3.1.
This is the classical of major disintegration where the limbs and body are moving in different parts. It is a mess in combat because it cannot sustain or recieve impact, cannot issue, but partial struggling muscular strength .
Why is this happen? Take a look at his butt, that butt pop out, back ward out, butt is the indication of the lower body is not in proper position and spine handling. That influnce the whole body integration and also lower abs breathing. The upper and lower body break a apart. Thus, no qi can be cultivate effectively. Thus, force path handling is breaking a part.
Its your opinion of some guys posture.
You make statements such as
-"butt is the indication of the lower body is not in proper position and spine handling"....... that is a statement based on your opinion
-"That influnce the whole body integration and also lower abs breathing".... that is a statement based on your opinion
-"Thus, no qi can be cultivate effectively"..... that is a statement based on your opinion AND your own beliefs (that qi exists)
None of this is measured, verifiable data.... its bias opinion as you have a predetermined belief in what you see as the outcomes
Its a couple of guys moving around doing some forms...... thats itThus, People can mimic posture, act as in the movie, talk like guru, but practice like a outsider of the field. As in the above, even with rehearsal the performance is breaking a part, how is that suppose to take real impact into the center line? It fall a part forsure. Not to mention the demo of this two men drill is just posture mimic with very slugish momentum handling.
No , no, no.... once again, you define things your way and think adding a mix of chinese terms (jin) with western terms (dynamic momentum) somehow adds weight to your theories.So, I hope people who doesn't know WCK , doesn't know dynamic momentum, doesn't know Jin issuing, not to come to the WCK forum and bs about posture and dynamic.
It doesnt.
You have done no real testing with no gathered data.
You have nothing but your own bias opinion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItTUWFdy0vQ
Some really dont care what you thinkSo, some might say, my pick at the above guy is easy, how do i do it?
Its nonsense, non-measured bias nonsenseWell, if you know Chinese i have explain it in the following utube .
If you don't know Chinese just watch two second of my demo from 10.53 to 10.55 , see how I move, how is the momentum, my postures, do I move accord to my slt practice? How is my butt, my shoulder. My head, my spine?
See, I am not good, but I am not shy to expose myself. Not trying to be who I am not but be who am I just the way I am.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=x87Sg...%3Dx87Sg_xHHg8
At 19.00 demo the four type of force handling operation.
Oh FFS, its the ball again to prevent hurting your opponent...... im lost for wordsAt 22.00 demo with the yoga ball air suspension, holding the same momentum generation, how an unintended issuing and an intended target issuing this case direct the force flow to ground is different . Presenting force flow can even travel across yoga ball air suspension and thus it is best using a yoga ball then a solid things as phone book for WCK inch punch demo to preven hurting the opponent . A precaution needed to take for those type of demo.
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Nope , don't see correct use of internal, he's not even connected to ground, only jumping forward with stiff posture.
Look at his wrists , stiff and broken , no energy will pass through his body, only external muscle force, its clear as day, no spring energy either.
When is the last time you visited this guy and touched his hands. ?
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