posture in SLT development

[Ozzy Dave]

Yeah poulperadieux that's closer to my experience in SLT - its quite a workout.

Dave

[Ozzy Dave]

By the way, It would be a shame if Wing Chun didn't evolved since 1850???
In terms of strategy I mean.

Well I'm sure it has, all MA's evolve or die but I don't think the evolution is always linear.

What I do find interesting is that most of the Chinese teachers I've had don't have a problem with multiple interpretations of a given MA, that's were an acceptance of a cyclical take on evolution is more apparent IMO.


Dave

[poulperadieux]

Some of my early video, with some experimentation with a Cello and Nath's legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YldcbUKY2E8

By the way, I show two of the basic postures I train, Mabu and Ygknma, for me, you can't work YGKNMA without mabu, or else you don't get an all rounder body, you specialize too much for wing chun.

A thing I don't want for me and my students.


PS : Mabo is taught in the Pole form, so I teach the pole really early as a workout for the arms, the back, the legs.

[Hendrik]

Yes, retain the center line strategy.

However, WCK is like a snake coil slide up a rod to get to center line with snake bite . Instead of a crane peck and bounce into it.

Notice, WCK using yjkym not San chin stance to develop the body.

Ok thanks, are you then saying WC retains the Bai He strategy but does not use the Bai He body method at all?

Dave

[YouKnowWho]

I prefer to replace

-"retain what comes in, send off what retreats" by,

-"intercept what comes, follow what retreats"

Nobody can even even agree on what the meaning of one of the most fundamental concepts in Ving Tsun translates as. That's how bad things are

To "follow (distance remain the same) what retreats" is different from to "send off (distance is increased) what retreats".

My point is if you spend certain effort to close in the distance, you just don't want your opponent to move out of that distance freely.

Of course since Taiji guys like to push, their interpretation on this may be different.

[Ozzy Dave]

Yes, retain the center line strategy.

However, WCK is like a snake coil slide up a rod to get to center line with snake bite . Instead of a crane peck and bounce into it.

Notice, WCK using yjkym not San chin stance to develop the body.

I would not express Bai He as “peck and bounce” I have heard that the reference to a crane in the styles name has more to do with abstract concepts such as integrity and longevity traditionally ascribed to the “White Crane” rather than physical attributes.

Fujian Bai He is a broad style, there are streams within which use a San Jan stance similar to the WC Seung / Toi Ma. Such streams also use a lateral stance similar to YJKYM.

YJKYM is good for initial equilateral development however, as in Bai He the same postural requirements need to be expressed when moving which is why Bai He emphasises San Jan, for me in WC Chum Kil retains these ideas.

Dave

[Hendrik]

Peck and bounce just to contrast with reel and stunk.

The two arts have different body or engine, the power generation are different, thus, posture doesnt tell the story.



[/B]

I would not express Bai He as “peck and bounce” I have heard that the reference to a crane in the styles name has more to do with abstract concepts such as integrity and longevity traditionally ascribed to the “White Crane” rather than physical attributes.

Fujian Bai He is a broad style, there are streams within which use a San Jan stance similar to the WC Seung / Toi Ma. Such streams also use a lateral stance similar to YJKYM.

YJKYM is good for initial equilateral development however, as in Bai He the same postural requirements need to be expressed when moving which is why Bai He emphasises San Jan, for me in WC Chum Kil retains these ideas.

Dave

[imperialtaichi]

Some of my early video, with some experimentation with a Cello and Nath's legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YldcbUKY2E8

By the way, I show two of the basic postures I train, Mabu and Ygknma, for me, you can't work YGKNMA without mabu, or else you don't get an all rounder body, you specialize too much for wing chun.

A thing I don't want for me and my students.


PS : Mabo is taught in the Pole form, so I teach the pole really early as a workout for the arms, the back, the legs.

In KL22 training, we get into the YJKYM, then we smash each other. To learn how to absorb force and remain stable.

[Ozzy Dave]

Peck and bounce just to contrast with reel and stunk.

The two arts have different body or engine, the power generation are different, thus, posture doesnt tell the story.

Hmm ok,

I would disagree with that as what you seem to call “engine” should, IMO, be an expression of efficient biomechanics displayed by an individual not a style. Feedback from engagement is integral to development in this regard as application in the end is determined by the individual and not the style. This development sometimes becomes codified into a sub style or if the variation is extreme enough a new style can be born. This is a natural and constant process which when misunderstood has everyone attacking each other as to what the true transmission of a given style should be.

Thus, when a style gets to a certain volume re: the number of practitioners, variations in “engine” naturally appear to accommodate differing body types. This can also be due to variations caused by different personality types and their preferred strategies. I suspect this would be the case with a “snake” aspect to WC, i.e. whatever its original provenance it developed more out of WC itself rather than as a conscious welding onto some sort of proto WC. I would hazard a guess that the evolution of MA and WC in particular is much more reactive and organic than you suspect.

In effect then a "crane" like expression from an "engine" perspective may be perfectly valid dispite you calling it incorrect. Don't forget Bai He has as much or indeed more variation within its ranks than WC does. I personally see enough markers especially in posture which, I think is an important comparison point in stylistic relationships, between WC and Bai He to support this view.

Dave

[poulperadieux]

Posture sure tells a story, your pain also.


Show me how you stand, tell me where your pain is, and I'll tell you how you train.

[YouKnowWho]

Allow me to ask a stupid question here. If you have cross trained both WC and white crane, when someone tries to kill you, which engine will you use when you try to land a punch on your opponent's face? snake enging? crane engine? 1/2 snake engine and 1/2 crane engine?

[GlennR]

Allow me to ask a stupid question here. If you have cross trained both WC and white crane, when someone tries to kill you, which engine will you use when you try to land a punch on your opponent's face? snake enging? crane engine? 1/2 snake engine and 1/2 crane engine?

Crake engine

[Ozzy Dave]

Allow me to ask a stupid question here. If you have cross trained both WC and white crane, when someone tries to kill you, which engine will you use when you try to land a punch on your opponent's face? snake enging? crane engine? 1/2 snake engine and 1/2 crane engine?

My point is that the individual will determine their best "engine" through experience, styles are templates nothing more.

I personally don't believe in hard and fast rules regarding power generation signatures between styles.

I do however think cross training is of benefit to that individual journey.

Dave

[Robinhood]

This is the part that I don't agree with. It contridicts to my believe "Keep your friend close but keep your enemy closer."

I thinking it goes like this, I invite you in and welcome you, if you want to leave , I hide the door.

[Robinhood]

Allow me to ask a stupid question here. If you have cross trained both WC and white crane, when someone tries to kill you, which engine will you use when you try to land a punch on your opponent's face? snake enging? crane engine? 1/2 snake engine and 1/2 crane engine?

You don't try to punch his face , his face runs into your fist.