Laap sao DRILL

[k gledhill]

A short clip of a drill, not competing or sparring just mutual improvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpuyUaBaH04&sns=em

[BPWT]

I quite like the PB clips that are posted - and there are quite a few that are posted

But a quick question. In clips of drills like this (lap sao) often PB is on the attack and the student is defending, often without countering - which allows PB to string together a fairly unbroken attacking flow.

Is this the way some of these drills are deliberately approached? (i.e. one person assumes a largely attacking role, and the other assumes a largely defensive role)

For example, from the roll/cycle of lap sao (or poon sao in chi sao for that matter), PB is almost always the one to attack and to attack first (or create a new angle to attack).

Not criticizing it (this approach can have some value when learning specifics), just asking

[Graham H]

I quite like the PB clips that are posted - and there are quite a few that are posted

But a quick question. In clips of drills like this (lap sao) often PB is on the attack and the student is defending, often without countering - which allows PB to string together a fairly unbroken attacking flow.

Is this the way some of these drills are deliberately approached? (i.e. one person assumes a largely attacking role, and the other assumes a largely defensive role)

For example, from the roll/cycle of lap sao (or poon sao in chi sao for that matter), PB is almost always the one to attack and to attack first (or create a new angle to attack).

Not criticizing it (this approach can have some value when learning specifics), just asking

It is not possible to counter him is why. Whatever you try and do he is always one step ahead and gives you no time to settle. If you were there in person you would appreciate the time he spends correcting your errors and explaining the do's and don'ts of Lap Sau.

Lap Sau is only and drill for development and improvement. In order for one to improve your Teacher must co-operate and allow you to complete your actions but he must also give you good force, speed and structure so you can develop a behaviour for fighting.

This is only a video clip and I wish people would stop trying to read into what is happening. If you want to know then you can go and see first hand and then you can discuss with and then the whole thing becomes clear.

It is not possible to draw conclusions from video clips!

[Frost]

[QUOTE=Graham H;1217688]It is not possible to counter him is why. Whatever you try and do he is always one step ahead and gives you no time to settle. If you were there in person you would appreciate the time he spends correcting your errors and explaining the do's and don'ts of Lap Sau.

Lap Sau is only and drill for development and improvement. In order for one to improve your Teacher must co-operate and allow you to complete your actions but he must also give you good force, speed and structure so you can develop a behaviour for fighting.

This is only a video clip and I wish people would stop trying to read into what is happening. If you want to know then you can go and see first hand and then you can discuss with and then the whole thing becomes clear.

It is not possible to draw conclusions from video clips![/QUOTE]

seriously you are writing this after what you and kevin have said over the eyars about video clips form the likes of Alan Orr, Phil etc

[BPWT]

It is not possible to counter him is why. Whatever you try and do he is always one step ahead and gives you no time to settle. If you were there in person you would appreciate the time he spends correcting your errors and explaining the do's and don'ts of Lap Sau.

Yes, when someone is at a much higher level then it is very hard to counter. I asked only because in the clip the student very rarely tried to counter. That's why I asked if it was a characteristic of the drill. And yes, I agree, if I was there it would make much more sense to me. I am not saying PB is a bad teacher - he looks like a great teacher!

Lap Sau is only and drill for development and improvement. In order for one to improve your Teacher must co-operate and allow you to complete your actions but he must also give you good force, speed and structure so you can develop a behaviour for fighting.

Not disagreeing with you

This is only a video clip and I wish people would stop trying to read into what is happening. If you want to know then you can go and see first hand and then you can discuss with and then the whole thing becomes clear. It is not possible to draw conclusions from video clips!

I'm trying to 'read into what is happening' to understand it better - I was asking what is happening from people who have experienced it. I'm not in Germany but some of you guys have been, so I was just asking to try and understand better.

Asking for PB guys to help me draw a correct conclusion from the video, as I am not there to experience it first hand. But you know this The videos posted of PB are not posted just for PB students to watch, surely? I train in a different line of the art, see these clips and find them interesting... so sometimes I ask a question to try and understand the clips better.

Not attacking the WSLPB method. Just wanted to understand the clip a bit better.

[k gledhill]

Every exchange is attack & counter attack, interception is by position of the elbow so it does look like PB strings actions together as he maintains correct angles and alignment. Thomas is trying , you can see PB make counter angles etc....as it happens.
Conditioning is important for the punching elbow angle and various Pak, jut, jum, bong/wu , cheun sao , etc. add to that stance angling , shifting in balanced power to counter and attack at speed.

[Vajramusti]

Repeat of the same PB clips!!

[Graham H]

Repeat of the same PB clips!!

Why don't you put something up Joy for once instead of continually jumping on the bandwagon!?

[Graham H]

seriously you are writing this after what you and kevin have said over the eyars about video clips form the likes of Alan Orr, Phil etc

Yes I am! The difference in Alan's (and the likes of) clips is that they talk in theirs so you can have an opinion that carries more weight! Philipp gives no explanations of what he is is trying to achieve or any conversation with the student and/or training partner.

[Graham H]

I asked only because in the clip the student very rarely tried to counter.

Believe me he is trying to counter and have an exchange

I'm trying to 'read into what is happening' to understand it better - I was asking what is happening from people who have experienced it. I'm not in Germany but some of you guys have been, so I was just asking to try and understand better.

It's not possible to "understand" those clips. There is no dialogue and it is only a snippit of the whole afternoon.

[Graham H]

The videos posted of PB are not posted just for PB students to watch, surely?

No they are not but within the mass of people that watch them there will be some that are curious to go and find out more as I did. Then there is only looking backwards to the previous mess that was practiced before.

[BPWT]

Philipp gives no explanations of what he is is trying to achieve or any conversation with the student and/or training partner.

I understand what you're saying, but that still cracked me up. I take back what I said about PB being what looked like a good teacher. (just kidding)

All in all, fair enough - I was interested in understanding better, but I don't feel the need to know so bad that I'll visit Germany.

Personally, I think it ought to be possible to watch a clip and get some understanding from it, if a) you train the same art, b) someone is willing to offer some explanation to help out with background/context/role, etc.

[Vajramusti]

No they are not but within the mass of people that watch them there will be some that are curious to go and find out more as I did. Then there is only looking backwards to the previous mess that was practiced before.

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More unabashed recruitment efforts. More of the same.

[Frost]

Yes I am! The difference in Alan's (and the likes of) clips is that they talk in theirs so you can have an opinion that carries more weight! Philipp gives no explanations of what he is is trying to achieve or any conversation with the student and/or training partner.

Phillip might not but Kevin gives plenty of commentary about what PBs kung fu is tying to achieve (as do you)

[Graham H]

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More unabashed recruitment efforts. More of the same.

As long as it keeps people like you at the other end of the planet then I am happy