Laap sao DRILL

[Graham H]

Phillip might not but Kevin gives plenty of commentary about what PBs kung fu is tying to achieve (as do you)

It's his choice and he will always have more of an idea than you on the subject because in this context you have no idea of what you are talking about me old china.

[Graham H]

if a) you train the same art,

There are only a few on this forum that train in the same art. Everybody else trains in different systems and therefore will bicker about the content within. It's normal for Wing Chun.

[BPWT]

There are only a few on this forum that train in the same art. Everybody else trains in different systems and therefore will bicker about the content within. It's normal for Wing Chun.

Well, no need to bicker... at least, not all the time.

I train Wing Tsun, and yes there are differences in what you train and what I train, but I tend to think there are more similarities than differences. For example, a lot of what I see in some of the WSLPB videos is not too dissimilar to drills I practice.

And I remember watching a clip of WSL giving a seminar on SNT and applications based on SNT movements and ideas, that is also quite similar to what Leung Ting teaches.

The same? Of course not. Quite similar? Often!

[k gledhill]

Repeat of the same PB clips!!

Same **** over and over ..... ; )

[k gledhill]

Well, no need to bicker... at least, not all the time.

I train Wing Tsun, and yes there are differences in what you train and what I train, but I tend to think there are more similarities than differences. For example, a lot of what I see in some of the WSLPB videos is not too dissimilar to drills I practice.

And I remember watching a clip of WSL giving a seminar on SNT and applications based on SNT movements and ideas, that is also quite similar to what Leung Ting teaches.

The same? Of course not. Quite similar? Often!

I have been to Germany doing clandestine seminars for WT guys seeking other teachers I have experienced a lot of wt. the differences are great. Superficially we will see a tan and a bong etc. but after that totally different. PB was a wt guy before finding WSL.

[BPWT]

I have been to Germany doing clandestine seminars for WT guys seeking other teachers I have experienced a lot of wt. the differences are great. Superficially we will see a tan and a bong etc. but after that totally different. PB was a wt guy before finding WSL.

I'm sure you have. (regarding seminars and experiences WT)

And yes, there are differences - some bigger than others, I would still contend.

Just saying, if you have been to Germany then you saw WT from the EWTO. This is WT as interpreted by Keith Kernspecht. He is free to teach his method, but I think it differs (esp. in recent years) from Leung Ting's teachings.

I understand that in Europe (Western) there have been quite a few WT guys that have moved over to the WSL method.

[Graham H]

I understand that in Europe (Western) there have been quite a few WT guys that have moved over to the WSL method.

There is a very good reason for that.

[k gledhill]

It seems some are judging PB's chi sao clips by their own (different) standards, where chi sao may have a more competitive flavour?
Philipp is teaching very specific ideas here. Lap sao and chi sao in WSLPBVT, are not competitive, ego driven proving grounds. They are co-operative, constructive, training methods that help to develop the students fighting ability, by revealing (and correcting) errors, and developing advantageous behaviour, that can be further developed in goh sao, and sparring.
Chi Sao should help to build and develop a students abilities, rather than stifle or hinder them.
You my look at a clip and think, "I would have got in there" or analyse and critique the way Philipps partners respond.
Well first... You wouldn't have got in there...trust me... Philipp can make very skilled people make numerous errors. That's what he does.
Second, thats not the point.... When chi sao degrades into ego driven tit-for-tat nonsense you end up with people holding on to each others arms, with desperation, that (god forbid) the other guy might actually "get one in".

Meeting Philipp made me wonder what the hell I had been doing ; )
( welcome ' T ' )

[BPWT]

There is a very good reason for that.

For sure. Though sometimes I wonder why people train for so long in something but don't go 'the extra mile' to really open up what they were learning (or should have been learning). Urgh. Politics.

[poulperadieux]

It is not possible to counter him is why. Whatever you try and do he is always one step ahead and gives you no time to settle. If you were there in person you would appreciate the time he spends correcting your errors and explaining the do's and don'ts of Lap Sau.

Lap Sau is only and drill for development and improvement. In order for one to improve your Teacher must co-operate and allow you to complete your actions but he must also give you good force, speed and structure so you can develop a behaviour for fighting.

This is only a video clip and I wish people would stop trying to read into what is happening. If you want to know then you can go and see first hand and then you can discuss with and then the whole thing becomes clear.

It is not possible to draw conclusions from video clips!

Hey, calm down...

He was respectful and polite.


In all the videos we see with Bayer, it's the same motto, he's dominating his students in every openings.
So it's normal, as you communicate like this, to ask questions on how your teacher teaches.

I was taught a different way as a teacher, to let openings and guide your students though them.


But of course, when in a fight with a student, you give less mercy, to teach them a fighting spirit according to what they can do when they can do it.

But I don't do it in chi sao or lat sao, I don't want my students to think that's where and how we fight.

[Graham H]

Hey, calm down...

He was respectful and polite.


In all the videos we see with Bayer, it's the same motto, he's dominating his students in every openings.
So it's normal, as you communicate like this, to ask questions on how your teacher teaches.

I was taught a different way as a teacher, to let openings and guide your students though them.


But of course, when in a fight with a student, you give less mercy, to teach them a fighting spirit according to what they can do when they can do it.

But I don't do it in chi sao or lat sao, I don't want my students to think that's where and how we fight.

FFS! We are just going around in circles as usual.

The videos that are put up of PB are just snippits from seminars. Nobody on this forum bar a few knows how he teaches. Like you they watch the videos and draw incorrect conclusions. How can you know what goes on unless you go to? Simple, you cannot!

I'm out of this thread.

Au revoir

[Happy Tiger]

Not only is sifu Philipp Bayer plainly skilled and talented, I am always inspired by his positive attitude and joy in chi sau . His encouraging attitude is infectious and a mark of good stock.

[wingchunIan]

The videos that are put up of PB are just snippits from seminars. Nobody on this forum bar a few knows how he teaches. Like you they watch the videos and draw incorrect conclusions. How can you know what goes on unless you go to? Simple, you cannot!

here's a radical idea maybe those few could explain......

[Ali. R]

Not only is sifu Philipp Bayer plainly skilled and talented, I am always inspired by his positive attitude and joy in chi sau . His encouraging attitude is infectious and a mark of good stock.

Then why are those; whom made contact with him as students/followers (on this forum) have so much negative aggression and contempt towards other families of wing chun, are they not of his stock?

Or is it the case of he’s apple falling very far from the tree?

And what does he say and teaches that make his people react the way they do to others?


Ali

[Happy Tiger]

Then why are those; whom made contact with him as students/followers (on this forum) have so much negative aggression and contempt towards other families of wing chun, are they not of his stock?

Or is it the case of he’s apple falling very far from the tree?

And what does he say and teaches that make his people react the way they do to others?


Ali

>shrug< ya got me.Sweet Jesus, protect me from your followers.