Philipp Bayer Ving Tsun (explained?)

[Wayfaring]

Has anyone tried those daido juku helmets with the face shield?

I quite like the idea of a protected/helmeted pad man feeding stimuli to an unprotected person using wing chun but I agree with the general sentiment that protection wrecks most wing chun, especially gloves. The odd unprotected sparring at full or near full intensity is required but unfortunately it isn't something you can do very often.

Victor Parlati who is a TWC sifu (Brooklyn many years now NY somewhere) posted on here and left before you came I think did Saturday sparring sessions with the face cage helmet and incorporated ground game. He had video of it but I can't find it anymore. Don't know where he's teaching lately but he's a TWC / William Cheung guy so Phil Redmond probably knows.

Ernie Barrios I've also seen do helmet drills - he's a Gary Lam student - www.wingchuncoach.com.

I've done some sparring with them. They have limited visibility but the obvious advantage is full force strikes to the head. It's still a little different than no gear as the strikes to the front of the face don't have penetration damage like getting a bloody nose. Also, a good solid rap anywhere to the helmet at all tends to have a reverberation effect. If you get hit hard you know it right away, and there is a normal adrenaline reaction to that. There was an NFL defenseman Deacon Jones that used to slap helmets so hard he was responsible for the rule change outlawing it, if that gives you an idea. You can spar without gloves with them, but probably should do more open hand strikes against the helmet, except you can punch the face cage.

[KPM]

Don't know where he's teaching lately but he's a TWC / William Cheung guy

I think he's been in Virginia Beach for the last 2 or 3 years.

[tc101]

Like I said if they work for you then great. They don't for me. They get in the way.

Head guards are also a big no. They also get in the way. I heard rumors that they are being retracted from Boxing contests soon. Research has indicated that they do more harm than good but like with the gloves protective equipment definately has its place as a training aid but not for Ving Tsun sparring.

Headgear is on the way out in amatuer boxing matches but not in sparring just the opposite. In fact all pros use headgear and most have started using the cage variety now.

Gloves do not harm your sparring in wing chun in fact I'd say just the opposite since the most important thing in sparring is practicing hitting with solid shots with the body behind it if you are not wearing protection on both hands and head you are not going to be giving and taking them. Sparring without protective gear is almost certaininly poor sparring.

[Wayfaring]

Gloves do not harm your sparring in wing chun in fact I'd say just the opposite since the most important thing in sparring is practicing hitting with solid shots with the body behind it if you are not wearing protection on both hands and head you are not going to be giving and taking them. Sparring without protective gear is almost certaininly poor sparring.

I agree with the importance of practicing hitting solidly. I have found that with the extensive bridge contact in WCK that larger boxing gloves impede normal progress from the bridge through to impact point hitting solidly. They get bound up on entry. Boxers don't have a bridge unless you consider the clinch a bridge. I have successfully done man sao to wu sau trapping of boxing punches like a bong lap drill in heavier boxing gloves. But 4-6oz mma gloves should not get bound up on the bridge. Disagree on the bare knuckle sparring being poor always. You should bare knuckle spar too.

Adapting to a wide variety of sparring means you have a broader base to draw from in experiences. Like cross family and cross art sparring. Like a self defense scenario that throws you a curve ball. Do all of it and don't turn up the nose and go elitist.

[jesper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=0JO-DDTyuUo

My personal preference was bakmei, but the more I do dragon the more I like it, but for self defence id probably still go for CLF or thai lol I know I can hit hard with those styles as I do it all the time in sparring

Low thai roundhouse is really good persuader if you dont want to hurt the other guy to much, but still wants to demonstrate its a bad idea to mess with you

[tc101]

I agree with the importance of practicing hitting solidly. I have found that with the extensive bridge contact in WCK that larger boxing gloves impede normal progress from the bridge through to impact point hitting solidly. They get bound up on entry. Boxers don't have a bridge unless you consider the clinch a bridge. I have successfully done man sao to wu sau trapping of boxing punches like a bong lap drill in heavier boxing gloves. But 4-6oz mma gloves should not get bound up on the bridge. Disagree on the bare knuckle sparring being poor always. You should bare knuckle spar too.

I like my stunning good looks to much to go bare knuckle sparring.

Adapting to a wide variety of sparring means you have a broader base to draw from in experiences. Like cross family and cross art sparring. Like a self defense scenario that throws you a curve ball. Do all of it and don't turn up the nose and go elitist.

My only two jobs in life have been the military and now law enforcement so I have plenty of experience with scenario training and so forth. There is nothing wrong with that stuff as long as you keep it real.

[guy b.]

I like my stunning good looks to much to go bare knuckle sparring.

Bare knuckle sparring is the single most important training for fighting because it is the closest thing to fighting.

[guy b.]

Gloves do not harm your sparring in wing chun in fact I'd say just the opposite since the most important thing in sparring is practicing hitting with solid shots with the body behind it if you are not wearing protection on both hands and head you are not going to be giving and taking them.

You can't make hard contact without gloves on?

It is impossible to use wing chun with large gloves, and small gloves interfere a lot. If you are always hitting wearing gloves it is unlikely that you are doing wing chun

[tc101]

Bare knuckle sparring is the single most important training for fighting because it is the closest thing to fighting.

Are you solidly hitting your opponent using your body in the face with no protection to either his face or your hand? I do not know about you but if I did that my opponent would continually get severe cuts, broken teeth, broken noses and so forth.

The closest thing to fighting is having someone really try to hit you.

My bet is that people doing bare knuckle sparring are not putting in good shots at all and that is what makes it poor sparring.

[Wayfaring]

My bet is that people doing bare knuckle sparring are not putting in good shots at all and that is what makes it poor sparring.

Ask a kyokushin like sanjuro_ronin about bare knuckle sparring.

[guy b.]

Are you solidly hitting your opponent using your body in the face with no protection to either his face or your hand? I do not know about you but if I did that my opponent would continually get severe cuts, broken teeth, broken noses and so forth.

Ok champ, you will do great then. Everyone needs to do it sometimes

The closest thing to fighting is having someone really try to hit you.

Someone trying to hit you using previously agreed techniques while wearing giant padded clown gloves on their hands isn't that close to fighting, believe me

My bet is that people doing bare knuckle sparring are not putting in good shots at all and that is what makes it poor sparring.

You lose

[tc101]

Ask a kyokushin like sanjuro_ronin about bare knuckle sparring.

That involves no striking the head with the hand right?

[guy b.]

That involves no striking the head with the hand right?

Original kyokushin had bare knuckle face punching. Changes the whole game compared to gloves. There are kyokushin derivatives that still have bare hand punching to the face. There was a ring event featuring it in Japan.

[GlennR]

Someone trying to hit you using previously agreed techniques while wearing giant padded clown gloves on their hands isn't that close to fighting, believe me

Why should we believe you?

How many martial artists have been owned by boxers time and time again?

Even WSL said that he found boxers tough to fight.... was he wrong?

[k gledhill]

Why should we believe you?

How many martial artists have been owned by boxers time and time again?

Even WSL said that he found boxers tough to fight.... was he wrong?

Boxers are tough to fight yes simply because you have to HURT them. To do this you have to have
Ko power
Punching readiness
Strategy
Balance
See opportunity
Correct your mistakes.

While you're doing all that , so is he. So focusing on this list start with a solid jawbreaking punch. If you can't do number one the rest are useless.