Biu Jee, Biu Sau and the Elbow

[k gledhill]

Let's move on then.

[Ali. R]

Let's move on then.

I’ve never stopped.


Take care,

[k gledhill]

Ok then ....

[Vajramusti]

Joy , silent ?

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I have a life aside from this forum!!

[k gledhill]

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I have a life aside from this forum!!

A likely story

[Vajramusti]

can you give a time stamp in WSL clip where you interpret the move as a wrist grab release, I suspect that you and Joy may be talking at cross purposes

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Ian- for sure we are.

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Kevin asked:Joy how do you apply pressure to the wrists of the grabbing arm if you don't " wiggle/drop " the elbow ? Chi-na drops the elbow but holds the grabbing hand so it is a submission hold.
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Joy's response_ Motions in the forms develop key attributes Motions are not always techniques-
though techniques can be operationally derived from motions in the forms.

There are numerous ways to handle a wrist grab and yes the elbow is involved in most wing chun hand techniques,

The movement of the elbows up and down are already developed in slt and chum kiu Biu jee proceeds to develop additional attributes.

The first motion after the punch in biu jee is not an isolated technique. It develops some key attributes including-snapping the palms and fingers explosively at the wrist.

Wiggling the elbow at that stage disperses the power development of the wrist and the fingers.
The elbow wiggling may however satisfy Hendrik's call for the snake!

It is better in a curriculum to build skill upon skill-rather than assuming that wing chun is only a grab bag of techniques.

[Happy Tiger]

Glad to be getting more of the why and why not,rather than the do or do not.Starting to get good intel now.

[poulperadieux]

The first three forms are all training forms and the last three forms are all application forms.


Take care,

yeap !

but not in PB students world, as in Wing Tsun World.

They work more or less the same ideas these times.

[EternalSpring]

I train the Biu Jee without using the more snakelike-emphasized movements after the first punches, however I've been taught to apply the technique using that type of movement. At least from my experience, although the arm may look straight, there is still movement throughout the arm (though it may be subtle).

[BPWT]

@Joy, BPWT and any TST lineage guys on here. As Joy noted, in the opening "finger-wagging" movements after the punch, TST, LT and some others keep the arm, elbow and wrist stationary while moving the hand and fingers. WSL and others keep the fingertips focused on a point and move the wrist, elbow and arm up and down, side to side and so on. The PB/WSL guys are never shy about discussing their perspective. But, clearly, you guys (TST, LT and HKM guys) see a value, either in training attributes or in application, to keeping the arm stationary. Please share from your perspective.

For us, it is mostly about training attributes (though of course there are some possible applications to the movements too).

These movements in BT are, in some ways, an extension/add on to the huen sau movement we have after the punches, etc, in SNT and CK. The aim of what we're doing here in BT is to work the same things but to a greater degree.

Namely, to really work/stretch the ligaments and tendons - so for us it is important to keep the elbow firmly in place. You could move the elbow, of course, but then you wouldn't be working these things quite as much.

This focus on the joints, ligaments and tendons is to help develop the extending force that is needed for many of the attacks in BT, coupled with the body methods (particular to this form) that go with them. Lots of WT training helps develop this extending force, but these early movements in the BT form focus on it very specifically.

In the BT clip I posted earlier in this thread you can get an idea of this. The person performing BT (Robin Tsang) has great relaxation, but good force too (extending force, flexible force, vibrating force, etc, all much of the same and connected).

Leung Ting talks about how this form issues force 'through the fingers'. Not to the fingers, but out through them - and that probably sums it up better than I can

[Graham H]

For us, it is mostly about training attributes (though of course there are some possible applications to the movements too).

These movements in BT are, in some ways, an extension/add on to the huen sau movement we have after the punches, etc, in SNT and CK. The aim of what we're doing here in BT is to work the same things but to a greater degree.

Namely, to really work/stretch the ligaments and tendons - so for us it is important to keep the elbow firmly in place. You could move the elbow, of course, but then you wouldn't be working these things quite as much.

This focus on the joints, ligaments and tendons is to help develop the extending force that is needed for many of the attacks in BT, coupled with the body methods (particular to this form) that go with them. Lots of WT training helps develop this extending force, but these early movements in the BT form focus on it very specifically.

In the BT clip I posted earlier in this thread you can get an idea of this. The person performing BT (Robin Tsang) has great relaxation, but good force too (extending force, flexible force, vibrating force, etc, all much of the same and connected).

Leung Ting talks about how this form issues force 'through the fingers'. Not to the fingers, but out through them - and that probably sums it up better than I can

These are the things that LTWT teaches in BJ....An extension of huen sau? Extending force? Vibrating force? Issuing force through the fingers?

In the words of John McEnroe...."You cannot be serious!"

[Hendrik]

The kuen kuit of 1850 says

Nine turning of The spine (of the fying snake )indicate the penetration of force flow.


Shoulder blade is the tail, Finger is the teeth, hand is the head, elbow is the body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjtzdNkkfqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmQJNwp7pSE
I am interested in the groups opinions reguarding the biu sau opening sequence of the biu jee form. In particular, the movement (or lack of) of the elbow relitive to the body. In my opinion, this is one of the biggest fundemental differences in biu jee and if I understand structure, makes a big difference to over all body mechanics of the form...or not. What do you think?

[Paul T England]

you can do it either way in my opinion, the WSL method makes more sense from an application viewpoint but I like both ways.

It does not really matter what people say, everyone applies wing chun based on their mind. Ip Man seemed happy with this as all his students are different.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[k gledhill]

you can do it either way in my opinion, the WSL method makes more sense from an application viewpoint but I like both ways.

It does not really matter what people say, everyone applies wing chun based on their mind. Ip Man seemed happy with this as all his students are different.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

What ? Thanks

[YouKnowWho]

Ip Man seemed happy with this as all his students are different.

Dragon has 9 sons. They all look different. One of them is a turtle.