Crabs in a Bucket

[MasterKiller]

the key to being champion material is being an intelligent figher, and having the talent, heart and skills to be able to adapt. these same guys would be able to easily adapt to any scenario any 'internal' martial artist could put forth..

Not true. Otherwise, champions would remain champions. The truth is, you have a very small window for peak peformance, and there are plenty of kids waiting in the wings to take your spot when you pass it.

Plus, in case you haven't been around a lot of them, I'll let you in on a little secret. Most high-profile fighters are dumb as sh1t. They are like rainman...idiot fighting savantes.

[Flusher]

As far as "TCMA techniques are not effective and need more full contact testing" argument, there are enough of those argument going on in those WC threads. Robinhood will treate those "full contact testing" as "sport" anyway.

Allow me to borrow our MMA friend's argument here. I always want to ask Robinhood,

- Who are those "internal" fighters that you are talking about?
- Can you put up just one "internal" fighter's clip?

I am well familiar with the sport vs reality cop-out. IMA/TCMA does not seem to fare well in a sport context. The only video examples we've seen here did not come from the "mainstream". Just from little IMA/TCMA clubs crossing hands with their own.

TCMA will earn it's respect when it finally does what even the layman can see it does not, or it's proponents get honest about it's shortcomings in it's current state, in general. Sure, there are exceptions. But the exceptions prove the rule.

[Flusher]

Sport yes, but most people do not realize there is not THAT big of a differentiation between sport and non sport.

Exactly. Yet the usual suspects will continue to claim that the rules of even the least restricted MMA matches nullify their training.

[YouKnowWho]

IMA/TCMA does not seem to fare well in a sport context.

I can't speak for IMA but for TCMA, it was in sport for over thousands years (record back to 246 BC).

http://combatshuaichiao.com/history.html

http://imageshack.us/a/img806/6752/shanpuyin4.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img846/7450/shangpuyin.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img232/5288/shanpuyin1.jpg

[Robinhood]

Can we just stop the "internal is good and sport is bad" arguments?

We have repeated this so many times. There won't be any new information from this kind of discussion.

Why do you always label something and then blame it on other people, I never said "bad", you did, I have said before "different", not bad, just different, like different food, ....etc.

And try to compare different foods, they all supply nutrition to some degree, some more than others , ect..

[Robinhood]

As far as "TCMA techniques are not effective and need more full contact testing" argument, there are enough of those argument going on in those WC threads. Robinhood will treate those "full contact testing" as "sport" anyway.

Allow me to borrow our MMA friend's argument here. I always want to ask Robinhood,

- Who are those "internal" fighters that you are talking about?
- Can you put up just one "internal" fighter's clip?

Probably the best are using some form of internal, it is the way things work .You just don't see it, that'd why they call it internal .

[Lucas]

Not true. Otherwise, champions would remain champions. The truth is, you have a very small window for peak peformance, and there are plenty of kids waiting in the wings to take your spot when you pass it.

Plus, in case you haven't been around a lot of them, I'll let you in on a little secret. Most high-profile fighters are dumb as sh1t. They are like rainman...idiot fighting savantes.

I see what you're saying, but the guys replacing them have the same qualities it takes to take that champion position.

idiot fighting savantes sound pretty bad ass. I wish I was an idiot.

[Lucas]

Probably the best are using some form of internal, it is the way things work .You just don't see it, that'd why they call it internal .

and this is the reason that i see it as all encompasing. for me, there is no internal there is no external. there is simply your body and the ways you can use it. its a flow. some will have certain areas as focus points and lacking in others and vice versa. i dont believe in 'internal' although I know and understand what most internal people are refering too, i simply choose not to divide the body away from itself. i prefer not to create segregation within my own body. you can do your standing and qiggong and meditations as well as lift weights and practice hard styles.

regardless of how you view or approach martial arts it all comes down to kinesiology. are you pulling your power from the ground and using your bodies connections from your feet to the end of your fist to deliver as much power in your strikes as you can? every good puncher does this, some consider it internal, some dont even know what internal is, some of us just see it as human possibilities through movement and intention.

[Lucas]

Probably the best are using some form of internal, it is the way things work .You just don't see it, that'd why they call it internal .

and that is the difference, the 'external' guys that develop 'internal' application through the natural order of motion have one step above 'internal' guys that refuse to use any 'external' approach.

a full package is always better than a partial.

[Flusher]

This is the problem for the TCMA. The window to test your combat skill is small.

The problem for TCMA is that the majority of folks doing just that, aren't doing so well.

[Robinhood]

and this is the reason that i see it as all encompasing. for me, there is no internal there is no external. there is simply your body and the ways you can use it. its a flow. some will have certain areas as focus points and lacking in others and vice versa. i dont believe in 'internal' although I know and understand what most internal people are refering too, i simply choose not to divide the body away from itself. i prefer not to create segregation within my own body. you can do your standing and qiggong and meditations as well as lift weights and practice hard styles.

regardless of how you view or approach martial arts it all comes down to kinesiology. are you pulling your power from the ground and using your bodies connections from your feet to the end of your fist to deliver as much power in your strikes as you can? every good puncher does this, some consider it internal, some dont even know what internal is, some of us just see it as human possibilities through movement and intention.

When you know the difference, you can choose to use it or not use, depending on what you are trying to do, or show. The outcome will be very different on or off.

[Syn7]

http://youtu.be/MtSzpKiARrI

[YouKnowWho]

The problem for TCMA is that the majority of folks doing just that, aren't doing so well.

Not sure I understand what you are trying to say here.

The majority of TCMA guys are not trying to develop their combat skill when they are still young. Of course you can develop your "engine" first and combat skill later. The problem is when your "engine" is ready to be used, you may be too old to use it.

[PalmStriker]

That's the truth. I don't understand why the first 6 months to a year of training wouldn't be fundamental fighting skills. After that start teaching the forms and esoteric stuff.

It should be like some sort of rite of passage anyway. Make them competent with fighting then they can have the culture, style and what not. Instead people are immediately taught the abstract parts of the art and more or less expected to "figure it out" over the next 10 years,

Kungfu in a nutshell.

[GlennR]

No, I mean your progress is not paying off for the amount of training, diminishing return for amount of time spent training, you stagnate . Unless you are doing sport fighting, then you are training for conditioning mostly, but age will limit you there , along with injuries and amount of time available to train.

I think your in your description , you left out the word "sport" , in top fighters , it should read top sport fighters.

Yes there are mostly external, but the better ones will , or are using internal , its just natural progression .

Clueless as usual

Show me one, just one 48 YO internalist that beats on this "48yo sports guy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Hopkins