Are there real Shaolin Monks?

[Scott R. Brown]

i agree, i didn't mean to deny this reasonable statement.


maybe the problem is with the translation, acupuncture point! this point in inside the lower abdomen and cannot be handled with needles, but is an important point at the Qi meridian and can be handled by external causes, like beating the area or handling its nearby points.
i don't know much about history, anyway, there are a few fundamental differences between Buddhists' and Daoists' meditation. while Buddhists more concentrate on enlightenment, and more stick to the DanTian area, Daoists, besides DanTian, emphasize on developing and transmiting Qi to whole their body.

It depends upon the type of Taoist and the century in which he lived. Some taoists did train for enlightenment as well. One method they used is know in Buddhism as mind wiping or washing. It was very popular amongst some Taoists and Buddhists.

[gunbeatskroty]

the general discussion is about being prepared for real situations, that's ok. but that's not on the side of boxing and many other systems at all.

Wait but you just said in your previous post that if someone had a knife, Boxing would be useless....therefore, you are being biased against Boxing.

many systems, like boxing and many others, teach bad habits, which as time goes on and the practitioner becomes used to them, those become misunderstandings that make the guy more susceptible to dangerous cases than even an untrained guy. a good system prepares the fighters for any situation.

Your problem is, you train in theory only. You've never hit your training partners at full power and vice versa (Boxers do this regularly, every week). You have no idea what it's like to get hit in the face repeatedly with combos at full power and what it does to you.

I train and fight MMA and mostly, a standup fighter....which clearly shows that my training is way more encompassing than just Boxing. But I'm not crazy enough to think that I can beat most Boxers in a street fight, in prison, or whatever just b/c I train a bunch of more styles than Boxers do.

And you're just lucky that bad situations in the streets doesn't happen often (usually NEVER) for you to be able to test out your theoretical-only, training.

[LFJ]

I love Shaolin Gong Fu, but some would argue that chambering your hand and punching from the waist teaches bad habits, as well...

"Some" are ignorant. Forms aren't fight training. I've never seen anyone punch like a straight up gongbu chongquan because they developed a bad habit from training forms.

[gunbeatskroty]

shaolin kung fu never punches from the waist

did I blow ur mind

Not sure why, but you crack me up almost all of the time.

[rett]

Not sure why, but you crack me up almost all of the time.

Most of us feel that way. Bawang is the good troll.

[gunbeatskroty]

"Some" are ignorant. Forms aren't fight training. I've never seen anyone punch like a straight up gongbu chongquan because they developed a bad habit from training forms.

Then why even practice those forms....which explains why most Sanda/Sanshou clubs, scraps most or all of such flowery forms training.

Boxers, Muay Thai, MMA, etc. shadowboxes how they would fight for real. Why not just do this rather than ending up throwing wild, out of control, flailing arm punches that looks horrible when put to the real test of fighting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIzEu4LmNxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f25XXvv-zow

[pazman]

Then why even practice those forms....which explains why most Sanda/Sanshou clubs, scraps most or all of such flowery forms training.

Boxers, Muay Thai, MMA, etc. shadowboxes how they would fight for real. Why not just do this rather than ending up throwing wild, out of control, flailing arm punches that looks horrible when put to the real test of fighting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIzEu4LmNxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f25XXvv-zow

Forms should be considered auxiliary practices. Just as judo players have kata, and muay thai players have wai kru and flashy "performance" techniques, sanda people may indulge in traditional practices to add variety to training.

[bawang]

Most of us feel that way. Bawang is the good troll.

so me quoting ancient shaolin manual about never dropping the hands is trolling.

ok bro

Then why even practice those forms....which explains why most Sanda/Sanshou clubs, scraps most or all of such flowery forms training.

Boxers, Muay Thai, MMA, etc. shadowboxes how they would fight for real. Why not just do this rather than ending up throwing wild, out of control, flailing arm punches that looks horrible when put to the real test of fighting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIzEu4LmNxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f25XXvv-zow

do forms once a week

PROBLEM SOLVED

[Kellen Bassette]

"Some" are ignorant. Forms aren't fight training. I've never seen anyone punch like a straight up gongbu chongquan because they developed a bad habit from training forms.

Agreed...and I think we shouldn't assume sport fighters don't know the difference between a competitive fight and da streetz, where they will succumb to the bad habits of their sport training....perhaps try to touch gloves with an opponent or wait for the opening bell...

[Kellen Bassette]

Forms should be considered auxiliary practices. Just as judo players have kata, and muay thai players have wai kru and flashy "performance" techniques, sanda people may indulge in traditional practices to add variety to training.

Well said, I happen to think forms make for a good warm up, as well...

[Kellen Bassette]

do forms once a week

PROBLEM SOLVED

He does have some really good ideas...just saying...

[gunbeatskroty]

Forms should be considered auxiliary practices. Just as judo players have kata, and muay thai players have wai kru and flashy "performance" techniques, sanda people may indulge in traditional practices to add variety to training.

I knew Wai Khru was going to come up, your argument is legit. Yes it's still a flowery dance, but different from ie. Kung-Fu forms in a sense that it doesn't mimic how a fighter would fight. It's mostly paying respect to the teachers, their god, the King, etc. Kind of like CMA Lion Dancing. I'm not against Lion Dancing, as it's not about fighting forms, while the flowery forms and kata are.

I'm glad most MT gyms in the US don't even bother with Wai Khru. I would never do it as it conflicts with my personal, spiritual beliefs.

[Kellen Bassette]

I knew Wai Khru was going to come up, your argument is legit. Yes it's still a flowery dance, but different from ie. Kung-Fu forms in a sense that it doesn't mimic how a fighter would fight. It's mostly paying respect to the teachers, their god, the King, etc. Kind of like CMA Lion Dancing. I'm not against Lion Dancing, as it's not about fighting forms, while the flowery forms and kata are.

I'm glad most MT gyms in the US don't even bother with Wai Khru. I would never do it as it conflicts with my personal, spiritual beliefs.

Kung Fu forms also don't mimic how a fighter would fight; unfortunately many people don't understand this.

I actually think it is unfortunate many westerners can't be bothered with Wai Kru. Wai Kru honors your teacher and his teacher, ect. the transmission of knowledge from generation to generation...

[gunbeatskroty]

I actually think it is unfortunate many westerners can't be bothered with Wai Kru. Wai Kru honors your teacher and his teacher, ect. the transmission of knowledge from generation to generation...

True....just for me I wouldn't participate as it also have religious implications to it which conflicts with my personal faith.

[SHemmati]

Your problem is, you train in theory only. You've never hit your training partners at full power and vice versa (Boxers do this regularly, every week). You have no idea what it's like to get hit in the face repeatedly with combos at full power and what it does to you.

I train and fight MMA and mostly, a standup fighter....which clearly shows that my training is way more encompassing than just Boxing. But I'm not crazy enough to think that I can beat most Boxers in a street fight, in prison, or whatever just b/c I train a bunch of more styles than Boxers do.

And you're just lucky that bad situations in the streets doesn't happen often (usually NEVER) for you to be able to test out your theoretical-only, training.

that has an obvious reason: because kong fu has various kinds of training systematically classified, other systems always see it as a highly theoretic system, that's right.

as kong fu practitioners, if we want to be full-fledged practitioners, we must practice endurance, stretching, balance, body, power and speed conditioning, and finally the styles and sparring. while most other systems are much smaller and just have a few dozens of things to be learned, which can be learned in a few weeks or months.

this is exactly where the difference rises. since we practice body conditioning (what you showed in your previous comments to be even unbelievable(!) to you, to break bricks and stones, and other such conditioning results), and since a big portion of kong fu applications are to tear the muscles, break the joints, attack the vital points like the groins, eyes, etc, sparring with semi or full power can only be done with highly experienced practitioners, and one must be extremely careful at that. it's not like a simple punching and kicking you can make it safe by gloves and safety shields.

besides, i myself have to hit my face, as well as whole my body, with a thick, harsh, heavy, piece of wood hundreds of times everyday. i don't think the faces of those western so-called "fighters" can be tougher than mine by any means.