Are there real Shaolin Monks?

[Kellen Bassette]

just to enjoy, bet, and drink more wine! oh no! forget it guys!

This, in itself, is a sacred tradition, my friend.

[YouKnowWho]

qi is real, and indeed simple phenomenon, but the world doesn't know, or even believe it, because, unfortunately, these true masters hide it, while some charlatans rant about it!

I had a long discussion with the main coach of the Chinese Olympic Judo/wrestling team on this subject. We all know that Chinese government would pay any price for the Olympic gold metals. The coach said, "If Qi work on the mat then what do you think that I'm doing here for?"

He had a good point there. If Qi works, Chines government would find those "true masters" no matter where they might hide, and force them to teach how to use Qi on the wrestling mat.

OK, may be Qi just doesn't work well on the wrestling mat. How about in the boxing ring? Chinese government would be interested in the Olympic boxing gold metal as well.

If Qi can neither work on the wrestling mat nor work in boxing ring then where can Qi be useful?

[LFJ]

Greetings,

There are three major incidents that took place in the 20th century that warranted tracking as far as where the Shaolin fighting monks went.

1- The destruction of the Shaolin Temple in 1928

2- The establishment of Communism in 1949

3- The Cultural Revolution

There have been no real tracking of the dispersion of Shaolin fighting arts during these periods. I learned that there was a high level fighting monk in NYC Chinatown during the 1970's; if indicative of anything, it is that there may be clues to the diaspora contained within international Buddhist temple traditions, a very neglected area of research.

mickey

None of those events would force them to flee the country, and of course we know individuals who remained through each event. The motive for the burning of the monastery wasn't to kill the monks, and there are numerous other monasteries all over Songshan (which people don't seem to realize). It is ridiculous to think that any of those events would force all the monks of Shaolin Monastery to flee the country and show up in Chinatowns around the world. Bawang is probably right again...

[gunbeatskroty]

And by "accomplished fighter" you mean having won in major sporting competitions?

of course, what else? pretend fighting? or kicking some drunk in the nuts and run?

[gunbeatskroty]

Why do you think this? China is generally pretty good at putting out quality athletes, (at least in the Olympics.) Sanda is a great standup system and they are starting to learn ground game over there....

That's true that they crank out some excellent athletes for the Olympics. I'm just not sure why they can't do the same for champion fighters. Sanda is pitted against Muay Thai in general, and does well. But we still don't see Chinese champions in the main K-1 tournament.

Furthermore, Kung-Fu does have grappling, so is it just weak grappling? And Japan is where Jiu-Jitsu originated and they have Pride, Shoot Fighting, etc. yet the Japanese still can't match the American & Brazilians in MMA. Granted that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu revolutionized the ground game of Jujutsu & Judo, but much of BJJ's ground game for these Japanese arts are still there in JJJ & Judo.

If anything, BJJ is not the dominating force any longer in the UFC, like it was in the early days. Especially with Dana White, aka Mr. Clean...making it very clear that he wants "exciting fights only", which means no pure grab-assers will get too many fights. He wants standup, bloody and KO's. So this should favor the Kung-Fu & Sanda fighters of China. Ground game is still essential, just not as much.

Lastly, China pumps a ton of money into their sports program to bring national pride in forms of title belts and trophies to their country. Incredible govt' subsidy to Chinese athletes compared to American athletes who are usually, all self funded. Not to mention a lot of money in the top tier UFC fighters. Then there's Boxing, where the most money can be made. Why can't China produce good fighters?

I'll get flamed for this, but my opinion is that Asians just aren't as good in the fighting game, even though our culture is fully engulfed in chopsocky movies.

[gunbeatskroty]

if you mean real monk warriors, there are documented footages of monks from various temples in the Shaolin area and from other regions, from north to south, practicing Shaolin kong fu, who break a stone with a single blow of their hands, break tree trunks with their forearm blows, grind a piece of stone between two fingers, tear a tree trunk with their claws, break walls with their heads, chew steel bars with their teeth, deliver more than 12 blows in one second or so, etc, etc.

none of those big 130+ Kg so-called fighter guys can withstand one single blow of such warrior monks. these fat westerners can call themselves 'fighters' just because their rivals are also like them, no martial art strategies, more weight, more chance to win!

LMAO, you can't be serious. This is a joke right?

[LFJ]

of course, what else? pretend fighting? or kicking some drunk in the nuts and run?

One on one fair matches in a protective environment with protective rules and whatnot with no risk of serious injury or death... especially highly restrictive sanda comps... that is pretend fighting... not the be all and end all.

[gunbeatskroty]

None of those events would force them to flee the country, and of course we know individuals who remained through each event. The motive for the burning of the monastery wasn't to kill the monks, and there are numerous other monasteries all over Songshan (which people don't seem to realize). It is ridiculous to think that any of those events would force all the monks of Shaolin Monastery to flee the country and show up in Chinatowns around the world. Bawang is probably right again...

During the Chinese Cultural Revolution, the Monks either fled into hiding or were incarcerated and re-educated by the Communists. The Commies don't play around, especially during that period of time when Communism was striving for significance. Shaolin Monks have been known in Chinese history to be resistors of oppressive regimes. The Commies would have never let such shizz-disturbers roam free. And, they are a highly religious entity, which is a no-no to Marxists. I know some Vietnamese that were imprisoned by the Commies for over 10 years in re-education camps just for being capitalists. These camps were like concentration camps.

[LFJ]

It wasn't that long ago... Can you name any of these individuals you refer to only as "the monks" and do you know about their individual lives, or are you just repeating what you think is likely to have happened to "the monks"?

[gunbeatskroty]

One on one fair matches in a protective environment with protective rules and whatnot with no risk of serious injury or death... especially highly restrictive sanda comps... that is pretend fighting... not the be all and end all.

haha, yea you probably fight to the death against multiple opponents all the time right? I always carry my 9mm + 2 knives whenever legal, so it's usually never a fair fight if I was attacked. I don't chopsocky in the streets, only bang-bang. But most of the time, showing it ends the situation (except 1 time).

You know, a trained fighter knocking you the F out with his fist & feet, works just the same in the street, in prison, Mad Max Thunderdome, etc. as it does in the ring.

The only difference is, in the ring, the referee saves you from brain damage or death. While in the streets, once you're unconscious and lying on the pavement.....it's up to the trained fighter's good graces whether he walks away or just stomps on your head repeatedly until your skull caves in and you die. I mean, who's going to stop him if it was only you two?

[gunbeatskroty]

It wasn't that long ago... Can you name any of these individuals you refer to only as "the monks" and do you know about their individual lives, or are you just repeating what you think is likely to have happened to "the monks"?

That's pretty absurd to ask me if I'd know their names. I'm just going by what the Commies would do as standard procedure towards those they perceive as threats during such monumental shift in power and ideology of an entire nation such as China.

[LFJ]

That's pretty absurd to ask me if I'd know their names. I'm just going by what the Commies would do as standard procedure towards those they perceive as threats during such monumental shift in power and ideology of an entire nation such as China.

So, in other words, you're just guessing and don't really know anything about what actually took place...

As for fighting, different situations require different strategies. Would you disagree? In a lot of situations outside the ring, pure sanda strategy and tactics pulled out as is won't cut it. One can be a champion fighter in sporting competitions and still not fare so well outside. It is not the be all and end all.

[Miqi]

people who claim there are no "real shaolin" in china always have alterior motives, mostly claiming by coincidence they just happen to have the "real shaolin".

This is the absoloute crux of the matter. The reality appears to be that there's almost no authentic wushu outside of China - and where there is, it is 99% people who have emigrated from mainland China.

[Miqi]

. . . . . . . . . .

Of course there are some very high level monks - but it doesn't make sense to think that some voluntary amateurs will be higher level than professionals selected from a billion people for their exceptional talent, and provided with the best coaching and resources in the world. Of course, you could argue that the monks are more traditional, and therefore better. I rather think that that is a specious argument, for various reasons.

I get the impression you know some of the monks personally and feel a loyalty to them. I haven't trained at Shaolin, but I did, very, very briefly, do a bit of training with some of the monks. And they were extremely impressive. But then I got to see professional level wushu over a long period, and in my view there is simpy no comparison. But - it's just my view.

[Miqi]

if you mean real monk warriors, there are documented footages of monks from various temples in the Shaolin area and from other regions, from north to south, practicing Shaolin kong fu, who break a stone with a single blow of their hands, break tree trunks with their forearm blows, grind a piece of stone between two fingers, tear a tree trunk with their claws, break walls with their heads, chew steel bars with their teeth, deliver more than 12 blows in one second or so, etc, etc.

none of those big 130+ Kg so-called fighter guys can withstand one single blow of such warrior monks. these fat westerners can call themselves 'fighters' just because their rivals are also like them, no martial art strategies, more weight, more chance to win!

Zhao Daoxin, who did fight or at least see Shaolin monks fighting for real in the pre Communist era, said they weren't very impressive.