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Thread: Choy Lee Fut Gam Jin

  1. #1
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    Choy Lee Fut Gam Jin

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8w59rQIqvM

    as we use the english terminology within our school, we call the technique on the video "Cross block". In my opinion its a decent technique. but a little dangerous...ok a lot dangerous. i say that because both hands are applied to one small area while leaving a huge open door to be knocked out.

    for me its dangerous for any position when you use both hands in a certain area. still, i would use it for a low block but with the expectation for a punch to my face and would have an answer for that in advance. there, you see the guy use to hands to block an uppercut. personally, i only use one hand for that situation. i would even jam it or scoop it.

    Sifu would say "is that safe?". what he meant was is it safe or could someone easily counter it and strike you instead. some of the same principals from our knife fighting i use for empty hands as well.

    what about you?
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

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    I would say that it is not so much a block as a move that transitions immediately into kam na. It can be (relatively) safe if you apply the right footwork and body shifting. I didn't listen to the audio in the above example and don't know what I missed but in our school we primarily train it with the left hand on top.

    Can you guess why?

    .
    "Look, I'm only doing me job. I have to show you how to defend yourself against fresh fruit."

    For it breeds great perfection, if the practise be harder then the use. Sir Francis Bacon

    the world has a surplus of self centered sh1twh0res, so anyone who extends compassion to a stranger with sincerity is alright in my book. also people who fondle road kill. those guys is ok too. GunnedDownAtrocity

  3. #3
    Can you guess why?
    i can come up with a couple....but lets hear yours.

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    nah, but i wanna hear your reasons tho.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

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  5. #5
    The technique seems to have more value in weapons work and not so much empty hand IMO.
    Behold. Mighty Ross. His coming was foretold in the Book of BaWang. He will come with a Vengeance on David, Son of Jamie. The Warring Trolls will unite across the Forums of Ching. And the Virgin Warrior, Pure-Hearted Lucas shall be offered up in Sacrifice to appease His Wrath. His Truth will ring in the hearts of the Kickboxers, and They shall be Glorified forevermore. Peace be upon you, Internet Traveler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    The technique seems to have more value in weapons work and not so much empty hand IMO.
    That's it.

    CLF is primarily a right-handed system because it assumes the greater likelihood of an opponent with a weapon in his right hand.

    .
    "Look, I'm only doing me job. I have to show you how to defend yourself against fresh fruit."

    For it breeds great perfection, if the practise be harder then the use. Sir Francis Bacon

    the world has a surplus of self centered sh1twh0res, so anyone who extends compassion to a stranger with sincerity is alright in my book. also people who fondle road kill. those guys is ok too. GunnedDownAtrocity

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    i originally wrote down what you just said but decided against it. yes, CLF is typically right hand favored. but in my school i require them to be equally good on the right as the left.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

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    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    i originally wrote down what you just said but decided against it. yes, CLF is typically right hand favored. but in my school i require them to be equally good on the right as the left.
    Yeah, my sifu said we should try to learn the techniques for the most probable situations first and later go back and try them on the other side. For example, our style only does butterfly palm on the right side because it is an outside (small door) technique and a weapon is likely to be in your opponent's right hand. Against a left hand we don't even try it. Takes too much training time. We substitute a low brush hand/waving cloud hand to enter his left side.
    "Look, I'm only doing me job. I have to show you how to defend yourself against fresh fruit."

    For it breeds great perfection, if the practise be harder then the use. Sir Francis Bacon

    the world has a surplus of self centered sh1twh0res, so anyone who extends compassion to a stranger with sincerity is alright in my book. also people who fondle road kill. those guys is ok too. GunnedDownAtrocity

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    For example, our style only does butterfly palm on the right side because it is an outside (small door) technique and a weapon is likely to be in your opponent's right hand.
    oh really? fut san lineages do both left and right side butterfly palms. its found first in our Che Kuen form.

    does your school use it as a trapping move or deflection? for us, we lock down tight on a limb.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  10. #10
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    I think it depends at what range you use it. At long range it's pretty dicey but at contact range it's similar to push hands movements, or of course a cross collar choke.
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gash View Post
    I think it depends at what range you use it. At long range it's pretty dicey but at contact range it's similar to push hands movements, or of course a cross collar choke.
    I agree with this. My time in aikido taught me to apply such techniques in a preemptive manner. Like when the attacker is raising his weapon to a chopping position for example. Much easier.
    Behold. Mighty Ross. His coming was foretold in the Book of BaWang. He will come with a Vengeance on David, Son of Jamie. The Warring Trolls will unite across the Forums of Ching. And the Virgin Warrior, Pure-Hearted Lucas shall be offered up in Sacrifice to appease His Wrath. His Truth will ring in the hearts of the Kickboxers, and They shall be Glorified forevermore. Peace be upon you, Internet Traveler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    oh really? fut san lineages do both left and right side butterfly palms. its found first in our Che Kuen form.

    does your school use it as a trapping move or deflection? for us, we lock down tight on a limb.
    We think of it as an arm lock. If it fails you can follow the arm to apply a bent elbow lock or just separate the butterfly wings to attack the head with tok jeung. I like to say that we don't plan for a technique to work, we "plan to fail" so students aren't stuck in one of those "oh, s--t!" moments.

    Ex.: Thrust with a "knife" and let your partner work the dihp jeung until he can capture your arm a good percentage of the time. Then start bending your elbow as soon as you feel the lock coming on. Then make it more challenging by trying to pass your weapon to the other hand before he can finish the butterfly.

    About thirty years ago I started feeling competent enough to follow sifu's advice and begin reversing sets and techniques. I still can't get the left-hand dihp jeung to work well against resistance. It's okay, though. The follow-ups are built nicely into the system, don't you think?

    .
    "Look, I'm only doing me job. I have to show you how to defend yourself against fresh fruit."

    For it breeds great perfection, if the practise be harder then the use. Sir Francis Bacon

    the world has a surplus of self centered sh1twh0res, so anyone who extends compassion to a stranger with sincerity is alright in my book. also people who fondle road kill. those guys is ok too. GunnedDownAtrocity

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gash View Post
    I think it depends at what range you use it. At long range it's pretty dicey but at contact range it's similar to push hands movements, or of course a cross collar choke.
    Collar choke, clinch, headlock, outward elbow wrench,...

    Multiplicity of applications for a few simple ideas is one of the things that makes CLF a good system.

    Agree with the similarity to some push hand ideas. Find the elbow and you know what to do.
    "Look, I'm only doing me job. I have to show you how to defend yourself against fresh fruit."

    For it breeds great perfection, if the practise be harder then the use. Sir Francis Bacon

    the world has a surplus of self centered sh1twh0res, so anyone who extends compassion to a stranger with sincerity is alright in my book. also people who fondle road kill. those guys is ok too. GunnedDownAtrocity

  14. #14
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    "oh, s--t!" moments.
    that's funny. i thought i was the only one who focused on "Oh sh1t moments".
    i feel its important to have an arsenal of "oh ****" responses.

    Ex.: Thrust with a "knife" and let your partner work the dihp jeung until he can capture your arm a good percentage of the time. Then start bending your elbow as soon as you feel the lock coming on. Then make it more challenging by trying to pass your weapon to the other hand before he can finish the butterfly.
    NICE!

    About thirty years ago I started feeling competent enough to follow sifu's advice and begin reversing sets and techniques. I still can't get the left-hand dihp jeung to work well against resistance. It's okay, though. The follow-ups are built nicely into the system, don't you think?
    yup. personally i would only use the butterfly hands to trap just for a moment, never hold it there for too long. sifu taught us long ago that when a struggle takes place while trapping, end it. let go. it only becomes a game of strength. when we tried it out, he was right.

    Even 30 plus years later i am still amazed at the SCIENCE of CLF. Yes, the follow ups are great and we have more than one to rely on.

    Collar choke, clinch, headlock, outward elbow wrench,...

    Multiplicity of applications for a few simple ideas is one of the things that makes CLF a good system.

    Agree with the similarity to some push hand ideas. Find the elbow and you know what to do.
    yup. sifu always said "here is one way to use it, now come back next week and show me five more uses for same technique. and much of what we do is also good for the ring. i love saying "oh we have that in our CLF, we just do it a little differently"
    Last edited by hskwarrior; 03-24-2013 at 12:35 PM.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

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    The downward Gam Jin or Cross Block as we term it, what is your opinions on it for blocking a low frontal kick? would you use it? do you believe it to be effective against a strong kicker?

    personally, i wouldn't use it for a low block for a couple of reasons. first, you don't know how experienced or conditioned another fighter is and i feel it can be a dangerous move to stop of low kick. for me, i'd just use my legs to stop it.

    the other reason is not safe is of course the huge open door for your opponent to knock you out. In the Lau Bun Hung Sing Cheung Kuen form we do use it to block a low kick but its followed up with the flower block for a punch to your face, followed by a kick and chop choy..
    Last edited by hskwarrior; 03-24-2013 at 12:47 PM.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

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