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Thread: Are Chinese Kung Fu movies dead?

  1. #1

    Are Chinese Kung Fu movies dead?

    It seems that Hong Kong martial arts movie industry has lost a lot of steam since about the time Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Hero came out. It seems that the days of awesome kung fu choreography and all the names we used to love watching like Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Donnie Yen, etc. are getting old and no one is really taking their place.

    Meanwhile, stars in Thailand, Vietnam, and Indonesia, like Tony Jaa, JeeJa Yanin, Iko Uwais, etc. are coming out with some impressive hardcore stuff while Hong Kong and Mainland China have moved into more of the Wuxia type films with actors who have virtually little to no experience in martial arts or what some like to call “Hua Ping 花瓶”.

    Are Chinese Kung Fu movies becoming a thing of the past?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gweilo_Fist View Post
    It seems that Hong Kong martial arts movie industry has lost a lot of steam since about the time Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Hero came out. It seems that the days of awesome kung fu choreography and all the names we used to love watching like Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Donnie Yen, etc. are getting old and no one is really taking their place.

    Meanwhile, stars in Thailand, Vietnam, and Indonesia, like Tony Jaa, JeeJa Yanin, Iko Uwais, etc. are coming out with some impressive hardcore stuff while Hong Kong and Mainland China have moved into more of the Wuxia type films with actors who have virtually little to no experience in martial arts or what some like to call “Hua Ping 花瓶”.

    Are Chinese Kung Fu movies becoming a thing of the past?
    disagree... since crouching tigers, we've had movie like sha po lang/killzone, flashpoint, assassins and bodyguards, new police story, little big soldier, wuxia, ip man 1 and 2. the list goes on.

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    I believe another kind of Kung Fu movie will come up soon. There is a modern term "秒杀(Miao Sha) - 1 second kill" that used in modern Chinese language. Instead of fighting from sun raise till sun set and from montain top to the ocean side, "秒杀(Miao Sha) - 1 second kill" will be the new fashion.

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    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 03-24-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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    The death-knell of HK kung fu movies was due to a variety of factors:

    The 1997 return of HK to Chinese rule;

    The relative lack of interest in kung fu/KF movies by the younger generation, for whom they are "Old stuff my dad/uncles watched";

    A far lesser pool of talent to draw from. Back in the day, there were Cantonese and Beijing opera-trained youngsters applying and adapting their skills to cinema, along with traditional and non-traditionally-trained MAists from kung fu, karate, TKD, etc. Not to mention, a variety of personalities, looks, etc. Back then, even many of the perennial extras or bit players had onscreen physical abilities that would equal or exceed today's top stars.

    The great directors/choreographers of the past cut their teeth by spending years on sets and learning their craft. With few KF films being made anymore, even if there were interest in doing so, the types and low number of MA films made in HK/China today couldn't support that. Not only KF choreography, but the ability to capture it in a masterful way is fading away in HK/Chinese MA films. And even in today's Chinese MA films, the choreographers are mostly still old-schoolers, like Stephen Tung Wai, Corey Yuen, Sammo Hung, Jackie Chan, Ching Siu-Tung, Donnie Yen, et al.

    Note:
    Most of the current Chinese action or MA films are mainland Chinese films, not really HK movies, which my post is actually addressing.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 03-24-2013 at 08:55 PM.

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    I have above 2000 kung fu movies in my home, and what I see is, the kung fu movies are not dead.

    But it fans are dead, after the comming of celestial there was a hit.
    But now those day's, there are not so much people who like it anymore.

    TO BAD

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    I agree with Doug

    If anything, the Kung Fu film industry is growing at an alarming rate (just see our CR thread). There are still the 'hardcore' films as you call them Gweilo_Fist, like some that Doug listed, but that was never a large sales demographic. If anything, Kung Fu films have expanded to encompass a much larger scope of cinema. Nevertheless, Jackie can still deliver a good fight (at 58 no less) and who's gonna diss Donnie at this point? (no comment on Jet's recent work ). Another major factor to consider is that Asia is getting more open, so there's a lot more cross-over. You can say that Jaa's work is Thai, and it is surely, but if you look a Panna Rittikrai's old stuff, you can see the Kung Fu influence. Choreographers and stunt people are crossing over all the time to work on films outside of China (actually, this has been going on for decades only they weren't always credited for political and work visa reasons).
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    If anything, the Kung Fu film industry is growing at an alarming rate (just see our CR thread). There are still the 'hardcore' films as you call them Gweilo_Fist, like some that Doug listed, but that was never a large sales demographic. If anything, Kung Fu films have expanded to encompass a much larger scope of cinema. Nevertheless, Jackie can still deliver a good fight (at 58 no less) and who's gonna diss Donnie at this point? (no comment on Jet's recent work ). Another major factor to consider is that Asia is getting more open, so there's a lot more cross-over. You can say that Jaa's work is Thai, and it is surely, but if you look a Panna Rittikrai's old stuff, you can see the Kung Fu influence. Choreographers and stunt people are crossing over all the time to work on films outside of China (actually, this has been going on for decades only they weren't always credited for political and work visa reasons).
    This is true.

    But notice the Chinese films mentioned are all starring or featuring old-school stars, choreographers, etc... (Donnie Yen is definitely old school). I think the question is, how many youngsters in China or HK are poised to step into their shoes when they retire from the screen? Maybe there are a lot, maybe not, but they sure aren't so evident like they were in the '60s through early-to-mid-'80s.

    Of course, the Chinese movies now are much bigger-budget affairs than the HK KF/action films of the '70s and even '80s.

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    Ah, but there was an older school before that...

    To deny the generation before would be sacrilege. Donnie and Jackie have crossed cinematic paths with plenty of the old school Shaw Brothers guys. Heck, Jackie worked with Bruce...twice.

    I think the real question is here is, who are the new young turks coming out of China?
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    sad part is im not seeing anyone remarkable from china.. i think wu jing was had the most charisma but its looking like he is a bust. the rest are plain... there wushu doesnt have that finese..wu jing was blessed to have yuen wo ping show him, same with donnie, and jet had lau ka leung... these chinese guys need to improve upon their stage fighting.. they fight like its a performance.. i dont feel a sense of conflict..just going through the motions.

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    Gene, that is the $100,000 dollar question.

    I consider anyone who started in HK films prior to and through the '80s as old-school. Jackie, Sammo and those guys started in films in the '60s. David Chiang started as a child actor well before he made any kung fu films.

    Back in the Shaw Bros/Golden Harvest/HK/Taiwan independents era, you could anticipate different onscreen 'matchups' of X-screenfighter vs Y-screenfighter, and if it wasn't already done, it would probably be at some point. That type of anticipation is rare now.

    *edit to add:
    I also agree with doug that none of the young guys out of China now seem exceptional or make me anticipate watching their work. Unless the movie itself is a good watch, but not because so-and-so is in it.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 03-25-2013 at 10:48 AM.

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    I have my personal fav...

    ...but that's because I know him. It's hard for me to be unbiased here . Shi Yanneng - he was on our cover a few years ago. He's been in several projects already, typically as the villain. He went by Xingwu previously. You probably know him from KFH, but he was also in Ip Man, Flashpoint, Shaolin, B&A, and a few other odd flicks, including a personal guilty pleasure, Kung Fu Chefs. He was just in JttW.

    He's finally scored his own vehicle - a promising project titled Wrath of Vajra coming up.
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    sammo speak

    this article is dated but very relevant to what we are talking about.

    By JOYCE HOR-CHUNG LAU
    Published: July 1, 2010

    HONG KONG — Respect is paid when Sammo Hung lumbers down the streets of Tsim Sha Tsui, the neighborhood where he first learned martial arts as a boy.
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    Mr. Hung in “Eastern Condors,” which was shown at the New York Asian Film Festival.

    Women ask for his autograph at a cafe where he has his black coffee. Laborers stripped to the waist in the summer heat crowd against the edge of their truck and wave. Tourists snap photos as he strolls along the Avenue of the Stars — a sort of Hollywood Walk of Fame here — where his hand prints are between Jackie Chan’s and Brigitte Lin’s.

    Not particularly well known among mainstream American audiences, Mr. Hung, 58, is known as the “Big Brother” of the Hong Kong kung fu film. The famously hefty actor did not go the Hollywood route that Mr. Chan has pursued but has stayed mainly in Asia, where he has directed, produced, choreographed or acted in about 200 movies. He is best known as a fight choreographer, working behind the scenes with stars like Mr. Chan and John Woo, and playing an integral role in the development of the kung fu genre.

    That earned him a lifetime achievement award last week at the New York Asian Film Festival, which runs through Thursday. It is showing four of his works: “Eastern Condors” (1987), a darkly humorous Vietnam War-era film that is said to have been an influence on Quentin Tarantino’s “Inglourious Basterds”; “Kung Fu Chefs” (2009), a comedy; and the two “Ip Man” movies (2008 and 2010), based on the life of Ip Man, a grand master of the Wing Chun style of martial arts who taught Bruce Lee, and for which Mr. Hung did the fight choreography. A sold-out screening of “Ip Man 2” opened the festival.

    The entertainment business runs in Mr. Hung’s family. His grandmother, Chin Tsi-Ang, was one of the first sword-wielding martial-arts actresses, and his grandfather was a director.

    Born Hung Kam-bo in 1952, he was trained in the old Peking Opera School tradition, in which parents sent young children to live on campus and to apprentice under a master who taught them martial arts, acrobatics, singing and dancing.

    “I was never good at school and was always fighting in the streets,” Mr. Hung said. “So they sent me to learn to fight.”

    At 9 he was sent to be trained in the Tsim Sha Tsui neighborhood of Kowloon, where he met a younger student named Chan Kong-sang, who became Jackie Chan. Under the school’s management they became child stars in a performing troupe.

    “We woke early in the morning and worked until 11 at night,” Mr. Hung said. “There was a small, square wooden stool, and we had to do a handstand on it for an hour. Of course they beat the children. I lived there for seven years.”

    Decades later, in 1988, Mr. Hung played his former master in “Painted Faces,” a drama that depicts the boys’ spartan life. “Our real suffering,” he said, “was much worse than what we put in the movie.”

    Mr. Hung said he did not learn kung fu specifically until after he left school. He also spent years studying a variety of fighting styles from China and other Asian nations.

    He established himself as an action director, choreographing the elaborate combat scenes for which Hong Kong films are known and sometimes fighting himself. He plays the portly Shaolin monk, for example, whom Bruce Lee battles in the opening of “Enter the Dragon”(1973).

    Through the 1970s, ’80s and ’90s Mr. Hung was involved in scores of movies, which the Hong Kong studio system was churning out quickly and cheaply. He specialized in the B-films so beloved by audiences here.

    Hong Kong cinema began developing its own look and moving away from stylized Mandarin-language costume dramas. Filmmakers started using bawdy humor, urban settings, tight hand-to-hand combat shots and the rough Cantonese of the streets.

    “Kung fu films have to move with the rest of the world,” Mr. Hung said. “You couldn’t keep on doing sword fights in historic films. People wanted superheroes. They wanted something fast and new.”

    From 1998 to 2000 he starred in “Martial Law,” a CBS prime-time TV drama, in which he played a kung fu-fighting Chinese cop.

    Like everyone in the Hong Kong movie business Mr. Hung is doing more work in China, as it opens up and as its entertainment industry grows. That said, he noted that “the local Hong Kong flavor is getting lost in some films.”

    “I wish there were more kung fu films,” he said. “They are a part of our culture. But there are no young new stars out there. Who’s making a new generation of kung fu films now? If all young actors want is to star in romances, what do they need to learn kung fu for? The sex scenes?”

    Mr. Hung’s three sons — Timmy, Jimmy and Sammy — have acted in various projects with him, but he said he was not going to push them. “I want them to see the world for themselves,” he said.

    Nor did he see the film festival award as the culmination of his career. Once the festival ends, he plans to return home to Hong Kong, he said, and start shooting again.

    “I’m not quite ready for a lifetime achievement award,” he said. “It makes it sound like I’m going to retire soon, and I feel like I’ve just started.”

  13. #13
    I don't really think that the fans are dead. Again, people are really getting into what's coming out of Southeast Asian martial arts films. These guys are doing exactly what HK/Chinese Kung Fu stuntmen and actors used to do.... taking big risks and pushing limits.

    HK/Chinese Kung Fu movies just seem to play it safe nowadays with more CGI and more wireworks. Don't get me wrong, I want every actor to be safe. I don't want them being sent to the hospital for the enjoyment of others. But it seems like the overuse of CGI and wireworks now have lowered the excitement level and expectations in fans. There's nothing new to expect.

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    IMO, even Thailand's MA films are becoming, or have become, stale. They fell into a rut a few years back with Tony Jaa's meltdown, and although still make some good stuff, nothing really special seems forthcoming.

    The really big rising powerhouse is Indonesia. They've had a MA film industry since at least the '70s with Willy Dozan (a.k.a., Billy Chong), maybe even earlier. But the big international attention now is due not only to Iko Uwais, but big-time to director Gareth Evans. But right now, that's one group.

    There's no comparison to the multitude of actors/performers/directors/choreographers in HK/Taiwan in the '70s and early '80s. That's probably not gonna happen again, just like a burgeoning Spaghetti Western industry won't be returning to Italy anytime soon. People nowadays know and expect CGI, bigger budgets, "pretty/handsome" young pop idols, etc., at least in HK/China it seems.

    Is there still a market for KF/wuxia movies in HK/China? Of course, but not the same as for other genres. Heck, according to Don Wong Tao, Taiwan alone used to produce hundreds of KF films every year, but for many years (decades) now it's been at about zero. Trends follow interest. If the interest had remained at the same level, the industry would have done what it could to keep supplying it.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 03-27-2013 at 10:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gweilo_Fist View Post
    It seems that Hong Kong martial arts movie industry has lost a lot of steam since about the time Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Hero came out. It seems that the days of awesome kung fu choreography and all the names we used to love watching like Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Donnie Yen, etc. are getting old and no one is really taking their place.

    Meanwhile, stars in Thailand, Vietnam, and Indonesia, like Tony Jaa, JeeJa Yanin, Iko Uwais, etc. are coming out with some impressive hardcore stuff while Hong Kong and Mainland China have moved into more of the Wuxia type films with actors who have virtually little to no experience in martial arts or what some like to call “Hua Ping 花瓶”.

    Are Chinese Kung Fu movies becoming a thing of the past?
    I recently have read a few stories and articles about the loss of the industry and the 'older guys say that the young, up and coming actors, want no part of the training and traditionalism associated with this. Present societal milieu is changing where the 'quick and easy' is good enough so the 'bitter' becomes useless or unnecessary. It has allowed other non Chinese styles to come to the forefront and enough to be integrated into modern USA martial cinematography! Quite a few of them are in Hollywood but they are usually unsung heroes!

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