Circle around your opponent

[YouKnowWho]

Do you like to circle around your opponent in fighting?

http://imageshack.us/a/img864/8041/circlerunningr.jpg

In the above picture, your opponent will be at the center of the circle. You move your back foot sideway (about 1 foot) to line up with your opponent's leading foot and back foot. You then move your front foot the same direction (about 3 inch) so both of your feet and your opponent's feet are almost in a straight line. If you keep moving this way, you will force your opponent to rotate with you. There are many advantage by doing this:

- You keep move toward your opponent's side door to force his leading arm to jam his back arm (so his back hand can't reach you).
- Since your opponent is constantly moving with you (he doesn't want you to move behind of him), his balance is shifting between his legs. This will give your opportunity to take advantage on his balance shifting (such as a foot sweep).
- If you attack his leading leg when your back foot, his leading foot, and his back foot are in a straight line, it doesn't matter where he may move his leading foot, his leading leg will always be within your attacking range (you are at the door handle position. No matter which direction the door may swing, it will still be rerstricted by the position of the door axis).
- ...

Unless your opponent attacks you at that moment, otherwise you have just forced him to play your game. If you have more experience in this footwork, you will have advantege over your opponnet.

What's your opinion on this?

[-N-]

Spiral in from the outside is better than circling. It has attack intent from the start.

Some people circle and move for no reason. They are just in a different position and didn't have the idea to pressure or attack with their step. The person in the center just pivots because the person circles on the outside without gaining advantage. Pivot is faster than circle.

If the person outside spirals in to take the back, the center person cannot just pivot. They will have to make distance while pivoting, which becomes a circle/arc retreat. Or they will need to intercept the attack and just go in.

[omarthefish]

If the person outside spirals in to take the back, the center person cannot just pivot. They will have to make distance while pivoting, which becomes a circle/arc retreat. Or they will need to intercept the attack and just go in.

Hmm....

Well this is how I do it:

[-N-]

When my teacher started us with circling and pivoting, we worked on quick continuous stepping without closing in.

Then we added jat tui("cross kick" from the other discussion) for the attack. The kick was for closing in, and we worked both left and right kicks for each direction of circling.

Then instead of just circling, we had to attack by going in with spiral footwork to deliver the kicks. The kicks helped train the quickness and intensity of the steps. Center partner had to add a small half moon retreat to his pivot.

Then we added low roundhouse to the leg. Then groin kick. Then front thrust heel kick.

During that, we added on avoiding, neutralizing, and countering the kicks and steps. So center partner couldn't just run.

Then we added one hand technique at a time.

[-N-]

Hmm....

Well this is how I do it:

You are blue?

Pressure in with straight line and tight spiral to the back as the opponent defense collapses.

Opening attack was aggressive enough that red forgot how to use his hand against the second punch. He was desperate just not to get hit. Otherwise he could continue his side step into a spiral with his right arm to the outside of second punch without panicking.

[Robinhood]

Do you like to circle around your opponent in fighting?

http://imageshack.us/a/img864/8041/circlerunningr.jpg

In the above picture, your opponent will be at the center of the circle. You move your back foot sideway (about 1 foot) to line up with your opponent's leading foot and back foot. You then move your front foot the same direction (about 3 inch) so both of your feet and your opponent's feet are almost in a straight line. If you keep moving this way, you will force your opponent to rotate with you. There are many advantage by doing this:

- You keep move toward your opponent's side door to force his leading arm to jam his back arm (so his back hand can't reach you).
- Since your opponent is constantly moving with you (he doesn't want you to move behind of him), his balance is shifting between his legs. This will give your opportunity to take advantage on his balance shifting (such as a foot sweep).
- If you attack his leading leg when your back foot, his leading foot, and his back foot are in a straight line, it doesn't matter where he may move his leading foot, his leading leg will always be within your attacking range (you are at the door handle position. No matter which direction the door may swing, it will still be rerstricted by the position of the door axis).
- ...

Unless your opponent attacks you at that moment, otherwise you have just forced him to play your game. If you have more experience in this footwork, you will have advantege over your opponnet.

What's your opinion on this?

If you can get the other guy to react wrong to any movement, you will have a small window of opportunity , depending on distance etc... And if next move can be neutralized , because he has time still to move correctly then no, but to hope you can move 3 feet before he can rotate 5 degrees is not good move, unless he does into know how to rotate. If you are playing with someone who does not react right to your movements , then almost anything will work.

[-N-]

to hope you can move 3 feet before he can rotate 5 degrees is not good move, unless he does into know how to rotate.

The footwork has to be set up and applied in the right context.

Just like some of the other questions raised on the forum, the methods really can't be assessed as stand alone items.

The gif shows a good way to set up the circle/spiral with the initial straight line.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I would pray for you, but I really don't know where to start. What gung fu system are we talking about here, if at all?

[YouKnowWho]

Spiral in from the outside is better than circling. It has attack intent from the start.

If your opponent does not turn with you, you can attack him at your 1st back foot side step. No circling will be needed.

Hmm....

Well this is how I do it:

In your example, your opponent does not trun with you. It gives you a chance to move into his "back door".

[YouKnowWho]

I would pray for you, but I really don't know where to start. What gung fu system are we talking about here, if at all?

We are not talking about any particular "gung fu system" but TCMA in general. Some people like to move in circle and others don't. We just exchange different opinions about it.

[-N-]

If your opponent does not turn with you, you can attack him at your 1st back foot side step. No circling will be needed.

In your example, your opponent does not trun with you. It gives you a chance to move into his "back door".

Isn't that the point?

We don't circle to stay on the outside.

We spiral in tight before he can have a chance to pivot. Then you have his back and can continue to attack. If you wrap his neck, you can continue your spin/twist.

If you can do that in one or two steps, that will be effective.

[-N-]

If you wrap his neck, you can continue your spin/twist.

Twist so his spine has to wrap around your body, then he will fly, no?

[YouKnowWho]

We don't circle to stay on the outside.

If you use "single leg", you will still attack through his front door.

[omarthefish]

If your opponent does not turn with you, you can attack him at your 1st back foot side step. No circling will be needed.



In your example, your opponent does not trun with you. It gives you a chance to move into his "back door".

it's not random that he didn't turn. There are two waysi know to get that effect.

- hide your footwork by attacking his face.

- move in as he attacks.

Both of those two situations prevent him from turning.

[omarthefish]

ps

imo,
back door is better than side door is better than front door.