Ving Tsoune and fencing 1st principle

[poulperadieux]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq5KE...ature=youtu.be

As I'm still waiting for Glenn and his brother in arms Graham to pull out a video on how they conduct and attack and how they defend, and, as one of them said that you don't need fencong principles to do Ving Tsoune properly Philip Bayer Style, I just looked this video.


And...

It seems they sure need to realize the basics of basics in Fencing, because they make a lot of awful errors, just as if they don't know how an attack is done.

Can't blame them, it's not Ving Tsoune speciality, as it comes from the crane, but it seems to me that cross training isn't a vain occupation.

[poulperadieux]

So, just to help figuring it out, the conflict with what is shown in this video and the 1st fencing principle is at :

0:27
0:30
0:33

1:00
1:02
1:05 x2

1:17
1:19
1:25
1:28


Than I stopped Watching, it was my own personal limit, usually, when I see things like that I stop watching after 30''...

[Sean66]

You're posts are so terribly confusing. Please tell us just what the heck your
"first principle" of fencing is!

[poulperadieux]

You're posts are so terribly confusing. Please tell us just what the heck your
"first principle" of fencing is!

You don't guess with all the clues I just let?

After all, I've already explained in details what Fencing 1st principle is in a previous post.

Sometimes it's better to let people search a little, the answer is so simple that, if I give it now, I'll just spoil the fun.

[Graham H]

You're posts are so terribly confusing. Please tell us just what the heck your
"first principle" of fencing is!

The guy is a complete loony!

[Graham H]

attn polperadieux

Why don't you eff off onto a fencing forum? I preferred this one before you joined.

[poulperadieux]

Anyway, nobody see the error, the same error made at the times I mentioned?

Something you won't see done by boxers, or guys serious in MMA for example.

[poulperadieux]

attn polperadieux

Why don't you eff off onto a fencing forum? I preferred this one before you joined.

You have no idea what I'm talking about don't you?

Chthulhu this is fun !

[Sean66]

Here is Diderot's first principle of fencing (out of 30):

Il faut se méfier de l’ennemi et ne pas le craindre.

Translation: "Beware the enemy and do not fear him."

Good advice, but what does it have to do with the video you posted?

[poulperadieux]

Here is Diderot's first principle of fencing (out of 30):

Il faut se méfier de l’ennemi et ne pas le craindre.

Translation: "Beware the enemy and do not fear him."

Good advice, but what does it have to do with the video you posted?

Not this one !

So, to make you wait, an extract of :"Les Secrets de l'épée" of Le Baron de Bazancourt, where the big big secret of fencing is written.

"« Faire des armes, ainsi qu'on le voit aujourd'hui, disent certaines personnes, c'est vouloir les ramener vers leur côté brutal.

« Non, répondrai-je, vous vous trompez ; c'est les ramener vers leur but véritable.

« Que voulez-vous ? un exercice, un art, dont le point de départ est le combat entre deux ennemis qui cherchent à se tuer, ne peut pas être regardé comme un simple amusement et une étude académique de grâce et de belles manières. -- Ne serait-il pas, je vous le demande, facile de prouver que l'escrime en sacrifiant si complétement son essence première à des idées par trop exclusives, jouait un jeu qui pouvait plus tard lui coûter fort cher ?
« Selon moi, dirai-je encore, la révolution qui s'est opérée est un progrès, et non pas un fait brutal ; à moins que la vérité ne soit ce fait brutal qui tient si fort au coeur.

« À part quelques individus qui veulent devenir des tireurs d'armes, les élèves qui hantent les salles d'escrime, viennent, du moins le plus grand nombre, demander aux professeurs, non les secrets de l'art qu'ils enseignent, mais les secrets de l'épée qu'ils tiennent à la main."

[poulperadieux]

"Car, à côté des fous, qui eussent voulu placer leurs extravagantes théories sur un piedestal, on rencontrait des tireurs expérimentés, auxquels l'étude et la science avaient donné un jugement sain, une grande habileté. Ceux-là, il est vrai, marchaient sur les anciens préjugés et acceptaient de grand coeur que l'arène fût plus vaste et plus large, et que chacun, selon sa nature, y eût ses coudées franches.

Évidemment c'était une révolution, une vraie révolution. Elle s'annonçait par des symptômes irrécusables, se faisait menaçante et s'attaquait aux vieilles idées et aux traditions jusque-là réputées inamovibles.
Le fameux axiome de Molière : toucher et ne pas l'être, se dressait triomphant. Le vrai et le faux se tenaient étroitement par la main; il fallait dé gager le bon grain de l'ivraie, mais ne pas vouloir cependant tout jeter au rebut."


The famous axiom of Molière : "hitting, and not being hit"

We are getting closer.

[poulperadieux]

The subject has been moved, I hope a fencer will be able, with his eyes and experience, to see what I'm talking about.

[Vajramusti]

Anyway, nobody see the error, the same error made at the times I mentioned?

Something you won't see done by boxers, or guys serious in MMA for example.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No comment on yet another PB group's same old same old kind of video.

But the French octopus's comments are off the mark. Fending and wing chun are quite different things. Most fencing (not all historically) involves a dominant side as does much of boxing.(and jkd)
WC involves equal balance on both sides. Plus fencing involves a one sided body use of a weapon- whether foil or epee.
Besides-the fundamental lunge with the forward hand-the other one way back with the front foot following smooth;y later - if imitated by wc people will get you hurt.
Sure there are similarities-the flutter of a butterfly's wings affecting rhythms elsewhere- pseudo analogy). To strike without being struck is a parallel idea;.The six gates (not for the foil) is another.
Apples and oranges and nonsense.

The forum keeps getting zanier.

[poulperadieux]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No comment on yet another PB group's same old same old kind of video.

But the French octopus's comments are off the mark. Fending and wing chun are quite different things. Most fencing (not all historically) involves a dominant side as does much of boxing.(and jkd)
WC involves equal balance on both sides. Plus fencing involves a one sided body use of a weapon- whether foil or epee.
Besides-the fundamental lunge with the forward hand-the other one way back with the front foot following smooth;y later - if imitated by wc people will get you hurt.
Sure there are similarities-the flutter of a butterfly's wings affecting rhythms elsewhere- pseudo analogy). To strike without being struck is a parallel idea;.The six gates (not for the foil) is another.
Apples and oranges and nonsense.

The forum keeps getting zanier.

So now, Old and Wise Wing Chun Sifu, do you see the link between Fencing and WC?

Don't thank me, thank My teachers, I'm just a young arrogant student.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Digging a trench with a shovel can also be compared to fencing. Thing is, they are two very different things and unseen principals might also apply there. Wing Chun, I believe to be the proper spelling, is so far from fencing the two cannot even be compared. I have absolutely no idea what ving tsoune is. This first principal you mention can also apply to a food fight if you will.