Ghosts and other Paranormalities

[sanjuro_ronin]

Absolutely not. Unless it's demonstrable, that is. If you can repeat your specific personal experience under controls so that everyone else has the same personal experience, then that's a lil different.

Then why do so many skeptics ask for personal experience if it isn't a valid form of evidence?

[Syn7]

If it's a demonstrable, repeatable experience that is shared by all, then that's something else.

What personal experience are you asking about? And what skeptics? Educated people who understand the process? or just dudes on the street who don't believe you for reasons that are just as irrational as your belief?


And for the record, I have never asked for a personal experience as a conclusive form of evidence.


Actually, wait.... define personal experience.
Are all experiences personal? are shared experiences still personal? does it have to be something only you feel/see/whatever to be personal experience? Would watching the sun come up in the morning be a personal experience?

[sanjuro_ronin]

If it's a demonstrable, repeatable experience that is shared by all, then that's something else.

What personal experience are you asking about? And what skeptics? Educated people who understand the process? or just dudes on the street who don't believe you for reasons that are just as irrational as your belief?


And for the record, I have never asked for a personal experience as a conclusive form of evidence.


Actually, wait.... define personal experience.
Are all experiences personal? are shared experiences still personal? does it have to be something only you feel/see/whatever to be personal experience? Would watching the sun come up in the morning be a personal experience?

If someone says that such and such MA move works and it works on YOU, is it evidence that it works? is that evidence at all since it is only personal experience?

[David Jamieson]

I also know that there is more to existence than what science can explain.

To be fair though, this is less and less with each and every day.
Especially now, in this time where learning and accumulation of knowledge is exponential in nature.

[Syn7]

I will say this though, "eye witness" testimony is the lowest form of evidence.

[Syn7]

If someone says that such and such MA move works and it works on YOU, is it evidence that it works? is that evidence at all since it is only personal experience?

If you can make it work, you can make it work. That's that. We hear claims all the time of people saying they can do this and that yet until they show us that it works under reasonable conditions, no... I have no reason to believe them. If it's somebody I trust I may give them the benefit of doubt though.

Reasonable conditions is the key here. If it works on me, that doesn't mean it will work on everyone else.

If I say this product A can turn all metals into gold and then show you it turning iron into gold... all I have shown you is that it turns iron to gold and cannot say I have shown it changes all metals to gold. Feel me?

[Syn7]

If you say the bible works for you, great. Seriously. Have at it. Just don't project your ideals on me and we're good. If you insist that god is real, I require more than just your word that you know that it's true.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you can make it work, you can make it work. That's that. We hear claims all the time of people saying they can do this and that yet until they show us that it works under reasonable conditions, no... I have no reason to believe them. If it's somebody I trust I may give them the benefit of doubt though.

Reasonable conditions is the key here. If it works on me, that doesn't mean it will work on everyone else.

Understood and agreed.

[hskwarrior]

To be fair though, this is less and less with each and every day.
Especially now, in this time where learning and accumulation of knowledge is exponential in nature.

agreed. i mean look, they just found the god particle. i just don't believe it will happen in my life time

does anyone know an atheist that died as one?

[Syn7]

agreed. i mean look, they just found the god particle. i just don't believe it will happen in my life time

God particle is such a misnomer.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you say the bible works for you, great. Seriously. Have at it. Just don't project your ideals on me and we're good. If you insist that god is real, I require more than just your word that you know that it's true.

Not really about religion but about ANYTHING that is subjective and to which evidence is, at best, elusive.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I will say this though, "eye witness" testimony is the lowest form of evidence.

Is there any other kind of "direct experience" testimony ??
Even scientific experiments are "eye witness".

[Syn7]

Not really about religion but about ANYTHING that is subjective and to which evidence is, at best, elusive.

I know, we just always end up there. lol. And it is a ghost thread after all. And no disrespect intended, but they are in the same league to me. I have no issue with peoples beliefs, it's their actions I have issue with. Not you, of course. You are always willing to engage in a civilized debate and willing to listen as well as talk and I respect that.

[Syn7]

Is there any other kind of "direct experience" testimony ??
Even scientific experiments are "eye witness".

Yes but they are repeatable which makes them a communal experience that anyone can observe. When they are successful of course. Not every hypothesis works out. I get what you are saying though, which is why I asked for you to define personal experience. I put eye witness in quotations because I meant it as a personal observation. Personal as in nobody, or not everybody, had the same observation. That isn't to say that a personal experience can't be true, just that it isn't evidence to others. Of course you believe your experiences validate your belief in a God, but it's just that... personal. As in not for others.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I know, we just always end up there. lol. And it is a ghost thread after all. And no disrespect intended, but they are in the same league to me. I have no issue with peoples beliefs, it's their actions I have issue with. Not you, of course. You are always willing to engage in a civilized debate and willing to listen as well as talk and I respect that.

Thanks, I appreciate that and view you in the same light
Personally I have never seen or experienced anything "paranormal" in the sense of Ghosts and such.
Do I think they exist?
I quess that would depend on what a ghost is of course.
If we are energy and energy can't be destroyed and can only change form then who is to say that when we die out "living energy" becomes "dead energy" and that is what MAY be called "ghosts" or "spirits".
As a christian I certainly believe in life after death and in lifer after, life after death ( the resurrection). Can I prove it? Nope. Is their evidence for it?
Depends on how you view evidence such as NDE and such.
To be honest I have never put much study into NDE and such so...
I am open to the possibility of "restless spirits" of course.
I am also open to the possibility that WC works
I am probably delusional !