Yiquan/internal sparring

[Robinhood]

Dear Robinhood,
I won't press you to reveal your level.

Hmm... I'm not saying that 'leading the qi' isn't real, or that it isn't invisible - but what it leads to must be visible, or it has no point in martial arts. Whatever the method, whatever the language, whatever it says in the books, it must lead to ability of some sort. I think I know you mean - but if it isn't visible, then I very much don't. This is one example of one, style specific, correct slow movement training in Chinese wushu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOE9a48aYi

It is not invisible, and I recongise the correctness of this movement when I see it. Is this what you mean? Or something else?

Your first video is not there.

[Miqi]

How odd - I must have posted it incorrectly. Here is another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKEpsJUBnqE


It would be very useful if you find a video that shows what you're talking about.

[Robinhood]

How odd - I must have posted it incorrectly. Here is another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKEpsJUBnqE


It would be very useful if you find a video that shows what you're talking about.

That shows someone moving around and also moving his internal around. Any kind of movement can be lead by internal movement, the key for MA is can you use it in application. ?, effectively. ?

Here is a clip of Sam Tam applying internal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgARo...ure=windscreen

[Robinhood]

How odd - I must have posted it incorrectly. Here is another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKEpsJUBnqE


It would be very useful if you find a video that shows what you're talking about.

I just found this one, this is good example of application

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF8CD...ture=endscreen

[Miqi]

I just found this one, this is good example of application

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF8CD...ture=endscreen

Dear Robinhood,
Thanks for sharing this. I'm afraid that what I do is so different to this that there is no common ground between our two different understandings of Chinese martial arts.

However, it sounds like you've achieved what we all hope to achieve in this martial arts world - a good level of ability and understanding according to what you find to be of value - so I wish you well in your future training.

[Robinhood]

Dear Robinhood,
Thanks for sharing this. I'm afraid that what I do is so different to this that there is no common ground between our two different understandings of Chinese martial arts.

However, it sounds like you've achieved what we all hope to achieve in this martial arts world - a good level of ability and understanding according to what you find to be of value - so I wish you well in your future training.

I think all is common still , the movement is just done on the inside planes and transmitted to opponent through the contact point.

[wenshu]

Here is a clip of Sam Tam applying internal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgARo...ure=windscreen

I just found this one, this is good example of application

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF8CD...ture=endscreen

Whenever I see one of these demos (and they are all together too common) I wonder if the uke has to be coached to jump backwards and flop around like that and therefore complicit in the scam or if it is purely unconscious ala conversion disorder.

I suspect it is a bit of both, some of them are obviously complicit and the less sophisticated among them are susceptible to dissociative and conversion disorders.

[Dragonzbane76]

I understand that some vids are for demonstrations. But I would like to see some in resistance. red flag goes up anytime I see someone doing a demo and not putting what they are teaching in full speed.

[bawang]

Whenever I see one of these demos (and they are all together too common) I wonder if the uke has to be coached to jump backwards and flop around like that and therefore complicit in the scam or if it is purely unconscious ala conversion disorder.

I suspect it is a bit of both, some of them are obviously complicit and the less sophisticated among them are susceptible to dissociative and conversion disorders.

its a form of hypnosis.

[YouKnowWho]

When you push someone away, he just keeps coming back. Spend all your life and train just to be able to push someone away is not a good investment.

Have we noticed that only Taiji guys like to push. The XingYi, Bagua, XYLH guys are more interesting in punching to the head. What does that tell us?

[RisingCrane]

One of my taiji teachers said that 'pushing hands is the mother of wrestling'. (He had 3 gold medals for shuai jiao.) I now understand that pulling/pushing and listening skills is all about unbalancing an opponent so that you can strike or throw them. With those skills your percentage of successful takedowns will be higher but only if you are ready to execute your technique while they are off balance. This is a very small window of opportunity and if you only train pushing hands without wrestling or sparring practise you will not be able to take advantage of the timing. So while I think that pushing hands and soft practise is not useful for fighting by itself, it can be a useful piece of the puzzle when trained as part of a complete system. Also it enables one to refine balance and set ups without accruing injuries, so you can train on your rest days when you are not hard sparring and still improve.

[Dragonzbane76]

and if you only train pushing hands without wrestling or sparring practise you will not be able to take advantage of the timing.

agree with this. Sadly that's all you see in that community most times. Not saying that exceptions are not found only that most take it that you don't need to put it in a resistant environment. I've wrestled for years and I find that many of the qualities involved in push hands are present, but if the sum of the center "fighting" is not practiced in full then you get what you see in most push hands competitions and training.

[Miqi]

One of my taiji teachers said that 'pushing hands is the mother of wrestling'. (He had 3 gold medals for shuai jiao.) I now understand that pulling/pushing and listening skills is all about unbalancing an opponent so that you can strike or throw them. With those skills your percentage of successful takedowns will be higher but only if you are ready to execute your technique while they are off balance. This is a very small window of opportunity and if you only train pushing hands without wrestling or sparring practise you will not be able to take advantage of the timing. So while I think that pushing hands and soft practise is not useful for fighting by itself, it can be a useful piece of the puzzle when trained as part of a complete system. Also it enables one to refine balance and set ups without accruing injuries, so you can train on your rest days when you are not hard sparring and still improve.

Dear Rising Crane,
Thanks for posting this - this precisely sums up my opinion on the matter also.