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Thread: Green Dragon's Iron Vest

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    the only thing i mentioned from the ancient manuals i read is they all tell you to lift weights, do less forms, and dont believe in magic.
    The funny thing is that we need some ancient manual to confirm what common sense should tell us.

    I wonder why it's so hard for so many people to understand that the majority of traditional classes are structured as they are, in modern times, to appeal to larger groups of people. There's simply less people out there who are willing to do rigorous, fundamental training.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKM View Post
    Hi Bawang. Iron Shirt is not necessarily hitting yourself. Tai Ch Iron Shirt training has three components.
    tai chi iron shirt involves hitting yourself.

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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKM View Post
    That is not my experience with it. Would you mind sharing your experience with this type of Tai Chi training? Thank you. All the best.
    do permeating qi or submerging in water qigong, then hit yourself.

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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by SKM View Post
    Hi Bawang. Iron Shirt is not necessarily hitting yourself. Tai Ch Iron Shirt training has three components.

    -standing post position (hold the ball) with feet at shoulder width.

    - gung bo left and right; projection =turn and shift forward; reception =turn and shift back. These can also be done with feet shoulder width apart and with an additional component of up and down spiral while being done.

    -turtle breathing

    This is a slow process and takes about ten years, depending on how much it is done, to start feeling the braiding effect of this type of Iron Shirt.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    tai chi iron shirt involves hitting yourself.
    A taijiquan instructor I know from the Cheng, Man Ching lineage showed me his method of iron vest and it does involve hitting yourself.
    Behold. Mighty Ross. His coming was foretold in the Book of BaWang. He will come with a Vengeance on David, Son of Jamie. The Warring Trolls will unite across the Forums of Ching. And the Virgin Warrior, Pure-Hearted Lucas shall be offered up in Sacrifice to appease His Wrath. His Truth will ring in the hearts of the Kickboxers, and They shall be Glorified forevermore. Peace be upon you, Internet Traveler.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by SKM View Post
    That is very interesting. Is it similar to the type of training that Hung Gar does and is it unique to the Tai Chi school or was it adopted from another source? Thank you. All the best.
    Sorry. Not familiar with Hung Gar IV methods.
    Behold. Mighty Ross. His coming was foretold in the Book of BaWang. He will come with a Vengeance on David, Son of Jamie. The Warring Trolls will unite across the Forums of Ching. And the Virgin Warrior, Pure-Hearted Lucas shall be offered up in Sacrifice to appease His Wrath. His Truth will ring in the hearts of the Kickboxers, and They shall be Glorified forevermore. Peace be upon you, Internet Traveler.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKM View Post
    This is a slow process and takes about ten years, depending on how much it is done, to start feeling the braiding effect of this type of Iron Shirt.
    If something takes that long to develop skill, how did anyone know to stick with it that long?

    Or do you think it was the kind of thing where they noticed that people who did a certain exercise (perhaps for another reason) happened to have developed iron shirt skills?
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  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by I Hate Ashida Kim View Post
    Has anyone done this program?

    Did you get the invulnerability in the small area of your torso they talk about? Did it expand to a bigger area over time?

    Did you notice any other benefits that are traditionally attributed to internal sets like health or vitality or mood or anything like that?

    I am talking specifically about the Iron Vest set as taught by Gene Chicoine of Green Dragon Studios.


    So, anyway....I've confirmed.

    YES, there is SOME body striking after the exercises.




    I expect all of you guys to begin this training by the end of the month. We will all reconvene next year and compare progress.

    Bawang will be the control subject in this experiment.
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    I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....

  8. #128
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    Ok I just watched the tape and now I have some comments.

    There were 3 rules for the program:

    1) You must take the herbal medicine. He specifically said that without the medicine you won't get the benefits. He said they've tried it without the medicine and all you get is a good workout.

    2) No sex for 100 days

    3) Minimize your alcohol consumption. He said a glass of wine with a meal every once in a while is fine but you shouldn't drink a lot.

    So that first rule pretty much rules out most people from doing the program since I don't think they send the herbs anymore.

    Gene Chicoine also said that you start the program at 36 reps and then you can go up to 72 reps and then you can go up again to 108 reps and that's like the full thing or whatever (although sifu John Allen said on the Stone Warrior tape that there was one guy who took it into the thousands). Gene said he recommends staying at 72 reps because if you go up to 108 and then you decide that takes too much time, you can't go back to 72 reps.

    Why?

    Isn't that like saying if you bench press 200 pounds and then you increase to 300 pounds you can't go back to 200 pounds? Obviously that isn't true. Is this some mystic qi reasoning? Why can't you decrease the number of reps you do?

    He said if after a year you can only do it 4 or 5 days a week that's fine. Isn't that also decreasing the volume done? Why is that ok but going from 108 to 72 reps isn't?

    What if you have to stop training, or decide to stop training? Is going from 36 or 72 reps to 0 reps bad?

    The final exercise involved sitting down and doing some hand/arm movements and then doing some meditation with your eyes closed and he said as you inhale your qi goes up your spine. This is opposite from what I've heard from other people such as Erle Montaigue who said as you inhale it goes from your nose to your dan tien and then as you exhale it goes from your dan tien, around your pelvis, up your spine and over your head. Why?

    To answer the question about hitting yourself, after the exercises you are supposed to hit yourself with your fists for 2 minutes in the abdomen.

    There is no specific hitting of the arms or anything. I do not think this iron vest program will condition the forearms to withstand hits (unless it's done with qi).

    I also found it interested that he said immediately after you finish you have to eat something like dry toast or a cookie or something. It can't be cold, and you can't eat a big meal for an hour after or an hour before.

    What is the reasoning for eating something right afterward? I've never heard that you should eat immediately following internal training.

    He also demonstrated a belt you can wear that you fasten pretty tightly which makes it more difficult to breathe because its compressing body and it's supposed to help keep your organs up where they're supposed to be. He said as you age your organs fall lower in your body and that's a bad thing. Can anyone confirm if this actually happens? He said the belt helps keep them in place as well as internal training which massages them and helps them stay up higher. He said don't wear the belt when you're doing internal training or meditating but it can be worn throughout the day. He said it also provides some protection for full contact fighting.

    At the beginning of the demonstration he was talking about the benefits of iron vest as they relate to health and he specifically said it will cure diabetes if you're not on insulin, and if you are on insulin it will reduce the amount of insulin you need to use by 50%. Those are pretty strong claims.

    At the end they talked about how after the first 100 days you are invulnerable in a small area below your ribs and after three years it expands outward and after 10 or 20 years it expands into your groin and armpits.

    They said if you want to be a full contact fighter where they don't use gloves you should train this program for 5 years.

    They said the invulnerability it provides will reduce the effectiveness of iron palm by about 60% and they said the only thing it doesn't work against is poison palm (or something like that). Is that the one where you dip your hand in poison and you can't touch people or they'll die?

    The exercises themselves were all done without tension except for one. They mostly involved holding stances, holding certain positions, moving your arms around, and bending and twisting certain ways.

    But seriously, someone explain why you can't reduce the number of reps of internal exercises you do.
    Last edited by IronFist; 06-02-2013 at 10:11 PM.
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  9. #129
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    I've practiced basic Iron Shirt for about 3 years (hitting myself at the sturnum for 60 secconds while lying flat on back or standing). I can tell a significant diffrence on pain management in taking a strike to the mid section when I do practice vs not.

    Am I saying you don't feel pain? Bwahahahahahah, no. But the level of management is significantly diffrent.


    Here is the can of worms being opened.

    How would you discribe qi in western terms. not that BS "qi blast" but legitamate quantifiable qi?

    Based on what I've studied (read and listened to lectures) I know what I think but I want to get everyones thoughts (including you Bawang ) before I answer.
    My leg being bionic is a reminder that arogance does not come without a price.

    "Keep your skills quiet until it is absolutely necessary to reveal them. And when that time comes, be a divine defender of Buddha." -Gene Ching-... -and "slap them silly."

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    The exercises themselves were all done without tension except for one. They mostly involved holding stances, holding certain positions, moving your arms around, and bending and twisting certain ways.

    But seriously, someone explain why you can't reduce the number of reps of internal exercises you do.
    it sounds like a bunch of bs.

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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    it sounds like a bunch of bs.
    I know right? But isn't Gene Chicoine really highly respected? And isn't he also a Shaui Jiao champion or something (as opposed to those "masters" who have never actually shown skill against a resisting opponent)?

    On the lecture portion of the tape they were talking about Gene and said how their master (Tung Sheng Cheng?) had 13 disciples or something, 12 of whom where Chinese and one of whom was Gene, and he choose Gene to teach this super secret stuff to. It was supposed to be a testament to both Chinese people being less racist (not teaching the white man) and also Gene being really good.

    The only thing I can tell from just watching the exercises is that I bet your shoulders get sore when you start because the first two postures are basically standing with your arms held out to the side for 3 minutes, and then in between each exercise you go back to standing with your arms held out to your side for a minute. I think there were 24 exercises which means you'll spend over 24 minutes holding your arms out to your sides. I bet your shoulders get tired.

    Some of them had specific abdominal movements and breathing patterns which I can see being a good organ massage (if that's a real thing) or at least getting stuff moving down there, twisting the waist, etc.

    I wonder what the herbal pills do. After all, they said it doesn't work without the pills for the first 100 days.

    I wonder if that's just a form of plausible deniability:

    - this program develops qi power and makes you invulnerable
    - this program only works with herbal pills
    - we do not provide herbal pills
    - therefore if you do the program and do not become invulnerable, you cannot say it doesn't work because we did not give you the pills
    - therefore you cannot disprove our claim

    They said the program takes about an hour and 20 minutes to do. I don't know how many reps that is, though.

    I'm trying to figure out how long it would take:

    - the first two exercises are 3 minutes of holding your arms out, so that's 6 minutes.
    - there are 22 additional exercises, 21 of which are followed by one minute of holding your arms out, so that's 21 more minutes.
    - the exercises themselves he said can be done pretty quickly and except for the one are all done without tension. The first 8 or 10 or so were done 36 times each to start, and some of them were done on both sides, and he mentioned that the ones that are done to both sides are done 36 times on each side. Still, when he demonstrated the exercises at speed, I can't see any of them taking longer than 1.5 minutes to do 36 reps. So that's 33 minutes for 22 exercises.
    - a few of the exercises were just holding a stance for a minute. It may have been 2 or 3 minutes. I can't remember, actually. So we'll say there were two exercises that were just holding a stance for 3 minutes, and that's 6 minutes. But we have to subtract two of the exercises from above at 1.5 minutes each, so that's minus 3 minutes, which makes a total of 3 minutes.
    - after the last exercise you are supposed to sit in a meditative state for approximately 5 minutes.
    - then you're supposed to eat something. If you had some toast ready to go that would take only about a minute.

    So:

    6
    21
    33
    3
    5
    1

    Well that's like 69 minutes.

    I guess if you doubled them to 72 reps it would double the length of the exercises that have reps. I can't imagine them taking more than 2 minutes to do 72 reps for most of them, though. Most of them are around one second per rep.

    No mention was made of if you increase the reps by one each week for 36 weeks or if you just immediately jump from 36 to 72.

    No mention was made of if you have to increase the duration of the timed exercises when you double the reps. So if you increase from 36 to 72 reps, do you then increase the 3 minute stances to 6 minutes?

    It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has done this set.
    Last edited by IronFist; 06-03-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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  12. #132
    Playing devil's advocate but

    open and close your hands for 69 minutes and you will see results

    just stand with your knees slightly bent for 69 minutes, and you will see results
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    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  13. #133
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    Time changes everything. Just time itself can have a HUGE role in your being.

    For instance, you were a formless blob once and now look at you! You'll be dust soon enough and through it all, you didn't have to do anything but be.

    Amazing.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Playing devil's advocate but

    open and close your hands for 69 minutes and you will see results

    just stand with your knees slightly bent for 69 minutes, and you will see results
    "Results"? What sort of results?
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    "Results"? What sort of results?
    muscle strength, muscle definition, endurance, etc etc etc....

    were you expecting firey chi balls?
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

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