Chase hands

[YouKnowWho]

People said that one should not chase hands.

This is correct from a striker point of view because your main goal is to knock your opponent down.

If you look at this from a grappler point of view, it makes a lot of sense to chase hands. When you have controlled both of your opponent's arms, he can't punch you at that moment. You can then quickly turn a striking game into your favor grappling game.

Here is a good example of "chase hands".

- You right punch at your opponent.
- Your opponent blocks with his right arm.
- Your right hand grab his right blocking arm (chase his right hand).
- He punches you with his left arm.
- You redirect his right arm and use it to block his own left arm.
- At the same time, you let your left hand to take over your right grip on his right wrist.
- You then use your right free hand to garb his left arm wrist (chase his left hand).
- Now you have controlled both of your opponent's arms (no more hands to chase).
- You pull yourself into your opponent and move in with your head lock, under hook, over hook, arm wrap and start your grappling game right at that moment.

What's your opinion on this?

[TenTigers]

that isn't really chasing.(Well, not how we in Southern Gung-Fu see chasing.)
You block or he blocks, you have contact.
Chasing hands is when you go after the hand/foot, reaching, over extending, or just following your opponent's action, rather than focusing on attacking the target.

[-N-]

People said that one should not chase hands.

[...]

Here is a good example of "chase hands".

- Your right hand grab his right blocking arm (chase his right hand).

[...]

- You then use your right free hand to garb his left arm wrist (chase his left hand).

What's your opinion on this?

I consider it chasing if you are following his action instead of leading it.

If he already blocked and is ready to do something else, and you react to the block, it is too late.

Better to lead so he doesn't have a chance to recover his timing.

In the same example, you punch to make him block. He starts to block, and you grab his hand and take over before he has completed his thought/action. This is how you make him give you control. You don't have to chase after it. Then follow up into your grappling or whatever.

This is how Praying Mantis does it. Look at every line in a form that ends in a takedown. That is what you see.

Superficially it might look like the other guy blocks. But you are intercepting his response every time. No chasing.

[Scott R. Brown]

I prefer to hook the arm, trap the elbow and then leverage the arm using the elbow as a fulcrum.

[YouKnowWho]

In the same example, you punch to make him block. He starts to block, and you grab his hand and take over before he has completed his thought/action.

If you have trained punch, grab, pull, re-grab, and grab drill daily, you are more familiar with this pattern than your opponent does. You will always be one step ahead of your opponent. Of course you have to make sure that your opponent uses his right arm to block your right punch. When you have grabbed his right arm, if he doesn't punch you with his left hand, you can press his right arm across his chest, switch grab, and still grab his left arm.

If you have right side forward and your opponent has left side forward, you will need a different plan.

If you just concentrate on controlling both of your opponent's arms before doing anything else, your mind will be simple. That will be your advantage IMO. This is what I'll call, "To force your striker opponent to play your grappling game".

[YouKnowWho]

Some people may not like this kind of pre set up "plan" and prefer to flow with their opponents. IMO, that's much harder to do. You just don't know where your opponent may lead you into. If you are not a good striker and fight a boxer, your boxer opponent may lead you into his favor boxing game instead.

[-N-]

If you have trained punch, grab, pull, re-grab, and grab drill daily, you are more familiar with this pattern than your opponent does. You will always be one step ahead of your opponent.

You pretty much described Mantis right there. Control, attack, regrab, attack in all different ways.

Of course you have to make sure that your opponent uses his right arm to block your right punch. When you have grabbed his right arm, if he doesn't punch you with his left hand, you can press his right arm across his chest, switch grab, and still grab his left arm.

Control his left first. Then he will give you his right hand when you attack. If he doesn't, you already hit him. When you grab his right, you now have both arms and go for takedown. This is controlling the arms without chasing after them.

If you have right side forward and your opponent has left side forward, you will need a different plan.

Switch sides with an attack. One that helped earn some kungfu respect from some karate guys I sparred was jump left middle roundhouse kick, left hand to control their lead left, jam a punch in their face, if they try to block with their right, take their right arm, pull to my right, use right sweep kick to my left for the takedown. If they don't block, hit them and grab their gi collar, then sweep takedown also.

That is one combo that I forced myself to stop using because it worked too well.

[-N-]

Some people may not like this kind of pre set up "plan" and prefer to flow with their opponents. IMO, that's much harder to do. You just don't know where your opponent may lead you into. If you are not a good striker and fight a boxer, your boxer opponent may lead you into his favor boxing game instead.

You can flow with the fight even if you use the combos that you have practiced before.

No different than a boxer with his own combos.

[YouKnowWho]

Switch sides with an attack. One that helped earn some kungfu respect from some karate guys I sparred was jump left middle roundhouse kick, left hand to control their lead left, jam a punch in their face, if they try to block with their right, take their right arm, pull to my right, use right sweep kick to my left for the takedown. If they don't block, hit them and grab their gi collar, then sweep takedown also.

I don't like to switch sides. I always put my right side forward. If my opponent has left side forward, everything will be much easier. My leading right hook punch can help me to set up my right grip on his left wrist. I can then pull myself into him and get him a head lock, or just circle under his left arm and get him an underhook.

It's so much fun to deal with a live opponent. I just don't enjoy "solo".

[-N-]

I don't like to switch sides. I always put my right side forward. If my opponent has left side forward, everything will be much easier. My leading right hook punch can help me to set up my right grip on his left wrist. I can then pull myself into him and get him a head lock, or just circle under his left arm and get him an underhook.

It's so much fun to deal with a live opponent. I just don't enjoy "solo".

I used to favor right side forward too. But added left forward to have more options and flexibilty to fight from any position. No matter what position, I can immediately attack without problem.

If you use aggressive overtaking footwork, at some point you will be left forward and it will be convenient to be able to attack from there.

You are willing to be an opponent that the other guy knows you only attack from right forward? If sometime you are left forward, you have to get ready first before attacking?

If you fight only right forward, you lose more than half your footwork options, and part of your speed and distance.

[-N-]

Isn't fighting only right side forward a type of chasing hands?

If you have to look for that particular position, don't you lose some ability to lead the fight?

[Dale Dugas]

From first contact, I want to control the person and their balance. Some call it controlling the spine of the person who is attacking you.

Off balance them at the earliest convenience and cause them to stumble/fall or strike them, etc.

Depends on what you are trying to do, you can tie up their arms so you can strike them and they cannot defend easily.

Tie up the arms to get in and control their body and throw them on the ground or off an object or on their head to end the confrontation.

Tie up their arms so you can access a gun, knife or other tool if needed by the situation.

I practice push hands while accessing my 1911 as well as knives.

[YouKnowWho]

I used to favor right side forward too. But added left forward to have more options and flexibilty to fight from any position.

In the striking art, whether your right punch hit on your opponent's face or your left hand does, it won't make much difference.

In the grappling art, your have

- major hand to control your opponent's arm, and
- minor hand to control your opponent's body.

also have

- offense leg that act like a swing door, and
- defense leg that act like a door axis.

If you have right side forward, your

- right hand will be the minor hand,
- left hand will be the major hand,
- right leg will be the offense leg,
- left leg will be the defense leg,

If you train

- one side, you will get 80%-0% result.
- both sides, you will get 40%-40% result.

It's a trade off. The choice will be yours.

[Dale Dugas]

Wang Shifu,

I train more on my dominant side much more than my non-dominant.

call it a super trained side.

[lkfmdc]

In the striking art, whether your right punch hit on your opponent's face or your left hand does, it won't make much difference.

In the grappling art, your have

- major hand to control your opponent's arm, and
- minor hand to control your opponent's body.

also have

- offense leg that act like a swing door, and
- defense leg that act like a door axis.

If you have right side forward, your

- right hand will be the minor hand,
- left hand will be the major hand,
- right leg will be the offense leg,
- left leg will be the defense leg,

If you train

- one side, you will get 80%-0% result.
- both sides, you will get 40%-40% result.

It's a trade off. The choice will be yours.

posts like this make me consider how much of my decisions are based upon my inclinations