Opening /crossing at start of forms

[Paul T England]

One of my students had some interesting insight into the Cross down at the beginning of forms.

Just wondering how other people explain the reasoning for this action?

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[BPWT]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...12#post1224812

“Directing people to closed threads is the path to the dark side. Closed threads lead to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

Yoda
(when he comes to this forum)

[Paul T England]

Thats what I was feeling!!!

Ok normally I explain it as centreline and space awareness but its interesting how it relates to COG (dan tian)

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[BPWT]

I never really liked the centerline explanation as it's too obvious a reference point - no need to try and find it when standing still

But spatial awareness is right (IMO), as one of the things this movement/motion trains is correct elbow position.

[Eric_H]

One of my students had some interesting insight into the Cross down at the beginning of forms.

Just wondering how other people explain the reasoning for this action?

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

If you do it the way we do it, it's the lower reference point - the physical boundary of the arms having structural power.

[BPWT]

That thread was closed?

Yes, I believe so. Circular arguments that sucked me in like a whirlpool... and Graham laid a cake

[poulperadieux]

Yes, I believe so. Circular arguments that sucked me in like a whirlpool... and Graham laid a cake

And spoiled it more with goat blood.

[trubblman]

I never really liked the centerline explanation as it's too obvious a reference point.

I agree. I have always thought there was more to the opening. That is used to define the centerline sounded too obvious.

[lance]

One of my students had some interesting insight into the Cross down at the beginning of forms.

Just wondering how other people explain the reasoning for this action?

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

Hello , anyway who was your wing chun sifu anyway ? The reason why I ' m asking is because , you learned from your sifu wing chun right ? So ask him about the cross arms at the opening of the form .
It 's the same as what everybody was saying it ' s used to define the centerline .

Lance

[LFJ]

Any human being with normal bodily awareness knows exactly where their centerline is without needing to physically "define" it in such a way, but that's a better explanation than the combat applications people come up with for it.

[Paddington]

Any human being with normal bodily awareness knows exactly where their centerline is without needing to physically "define" it in such a way, but that's a better explanation than the combat applications people come up with for it.

I have trained with Sifus who have, like others have said in this thread, insisted that the crossing of the arms is just to check a centerline.

Personally I think there are a few things that are being trained and reinforced by the crossing of the arms at the beginning of forms. I am not going to name them here though I will state why I think that in forms from the Ip Man family of Wing Chun, we often are training and can train many things from what seems like a single movement in the forms.

One thing I have noted about Ip Man Wing Chun, as that is the family of Wing Chun I am most familiar with, is that it has been progressively reductionist in its pedagogical approach.

Listening to the type of arguments that the two brothers Ip Ching and Ip Chun have had, inclines me further towards this line of thought. Efficiency in delivery of the system, I believe, has informed a lot of the idiosyncrasies and changes of the forms within the IP Man family of Wing Chun over the years, including what Ip Man himself contributed.

[wingchunIan]

Any human being with normal bodily awareness knows exactly where their centerline is without needing to physically "define" it in such a way, but that's a better explanation than the combat applications people come up with for it.

Not true at all. Watch beginners do punches or SNT and you will see a complete lack of ability to where to the centreline

[Paddington]

Not true at all. Watch beginners do punches or SNT and you will see a complete lack of ability to where to the centreline

I agree with you here, I've seen the same too.

[Robadob]

In our lineage the lower movement is similar to a centerline punch. The reason it seems to point down is this way you know you're at the centerline the moment your biceps touches your chest.
The upward movement is setting up your Wu Sau. The correct placement is checked by shifting. If for example you' ld have shifted to the left, your right hand Wu Sau is now at the centerline.

[LFJ]

Not true at all. Watch beginners do punches or SNT and you will see a complete lack of ability to where to the centreline

Are you talking about their own centerline or the central line between themselves and the opponent? Folks who explain the crossing hands as defining one's own centerline often explain the following 'punch' as defining the central line between oneself and the opponent.

Anyhow, bad coordination doesn't mean they don't know where their centerline is. You think the majority of people can't close their eyes and touch their nose, sternum or navel, and that they'll be able to do so after crossing their arms in front of their body?