Hook

[Dragonzbane76]

hook has more rotation on the lead foot with the arm following the movement and rotation of the body. this was a side step.

[Grumblegeezer]

BPWT -- The problem with this isn't the technique, but the way it's demonstrated.

First off, his footwork isn't visible, since he's shown from the waist up. You and I know how he's stepping in and off-line, and rotating into the punch ...because we train this footwork. I used in in WT with LT and a more aggressive, but analogous step in Escrima. It does work, if done right.

Secondly, the deflecting hand is a WT fook-sau. It's almost like a palm-down tan sau... but in application a bit more extended, and energy is different, due to the fact that the elbow position is different. The TST guys do something similar, but call it dai-sau. I find it much more effective than a tan in this situation.

Thirdly, I hate it in these demos when they don't show a good aggressive follow up. Nobody, even Mike Tyson in his prime could depend upon ending it with one punch. Yeah, it could happen, but what if you land your shot, and the other guy just takes it, tucks his head and keeps on coming?

So, I have no problem with the technique, but I do question the presentation.

[BPWT]

Yes, completely agree Grumblegeezer. And I think this is why I am not agreeing with John - without seeing the WT guy's footwork I think people easily miss that his body is not where it started from and so the punch is largely negated regardless of what the WT guy does with his left hand.

I tried explaining it by mentioning the specific Chum Kiu footwork, but this might also be different lineage to lineage.

Interestingly, I've seen the same ideas used in Japanese sword work too, against a cut coming in at the same angle.

[poulperadieux]

Yep, thai boxers deflect hooks palm down when bare handed, so I don't do it with a tan either, and don't teach it with a tan before explaining the fook, waste of time.

I've got a few MMA guys coming at my place tonight, I'll ask them to do combinations on me to have more live situations than in this video I shot earlier :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOHT2mZwMpg


If someone has special request for the video tonight, it will be welcomed !

[poulperadieux]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER8s4cDMTGc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-umCbT-Iik

fook palm down, for the ones reluctant to work muay boran AND Wing Chun, pretty much the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E8Lrm1J3c8

Elbows in boran.

[EternalSpring]

For all I know, that Ving Tsun guy may be the most bad a$$ fighter in the world, but that video is a good example of why most non-Ving Tsunners (and some Tsunners as well) talk down on Ving Tsun.

[BPWT]

For all I know, that Ving Tsun guy may be the most bad a$$ fighter in the world, but that video is a good example of why most non-Ving Tsunners (and some Tsunners as well) talk down on Ving Tsun.

Okay. People are free to train whatever other arts they want

And in my experience, people from every art talk smack about every other art. Should I care? . Like I said, I have used this and it works.

But if you have a clip you prefer... go and watch it.

[Frost]

For all I know, that Ving Tsun guy may be the most bad a$$ fighter in the world, but that video is a good example of why most non-Ving Tsunners (and some Tsunners as well) talk down on Ving Tsun.

what he said and what ronin said

[GlennR]

Secondly, the deflecting hand is a WT fook-sau. It's almost like a palm-down tan sau... but in application a bit more extended, and energy is different, due to the fact that the elbow position is different. The TST guys do something similar, but call it dai-sau. I find it much more effective than a tan in this situation.

Hi GG
Yep, TST guys do Dai-Sau, though its not like a "fook"

[GlennR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER8s4cDMTGc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-umCbT-Iik

fook palm down, for the ones reluctant to work muay boran AND Wing Chun, pretty much the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E8Lrm1J3c8

Elbows in boran.

Good clips and, if one looks closely, like WC they ARE looking for the bridge.

Well done Poopy!

[poulperadieux]

Good clips and, if one looks closely, like WC they ARE looking for the bridge.

Well done Poopy!

You Goat to learn Muay Boran Graham, I Say.

[GlennR]

You Goat to learn Muay Boran Graham, I Say.

He doesnt need to learm Muay Boran, but wouldnt hurt training with them

[poulperadieux]

He doesnt need to learm Muay Boran, but wouldnt hurt training with them

Why do you talk about yourself at the third person Graham?

[JPinAZ]

Yes, completely agree Grumblegeezer. And I think this is why I am not agreeing with John - without seeing the WT guy's footwork I think people easily miss that his body is not where it started from and so the punch is largely negated regardless of what the WT guy does with his left hand.

I tried explaining it by mentioning the specific Chum Kiu footwork, but this might also be different lineage to lineage.

Interestingly, I've seen the same ideas used in Japanese sword work too, against a cut coming in at the same angle.

Sounds like you’re saying he's disregarding even the most basic of WC centerline principles by stepping/running away from the attack before he's even made contact or attempted to engage it on the centerline. IMO, No Centerline = No Wing Chun.
That said, And no offnse meant, I'd say this really has little to do with WC at this point and is probably posted in the wrong forum

[Grumblegeezer]

Sounds like you’re saying he's disregarding even the most basic of WC centerline principles by stepping/running away from the attack before he's even made contact or attempted to engage it on the centerline. IMO, No Centerline = No Wing Chun.
That said, And no offnse meant, I'd say this really has little to do with WC at this point and is probably posted in the wrong forum

Not running away, but yeilding to the side as he receives the pressure of the attack. I have had very limited contact with HFY WC, but the one HFY student I met stressed a very solid stance, and did not yield much. The "WT" guys tend to favor much lighter, yielding footwork. They still maintain forward pressure and centerling orientation. Or at least if they're doing it right, they do!