kung fu sparring without kickboxing

[MightyB]

I love that we still have these circular arguments when the answers are so simple. Fuking get in the habit of sparring real people. End of story. It will cause you to fall in the spectrum of either destroying your confidence in Kung Fu or reaffirming it totally.

[bawang]

I love that we still have these circular arguments when the answers are so simple. Fuking get in the habit of sparring real people. End of story. It will cause you to fall in the spectrum of either destroying your confidence in Kung Fu or reaffirming it totally.

those foreign tourst students that come out of the dengfeng shaolin factory were taught nothing and talk about nothing. their form teaches nothing and means nothing. they train by the power of imagination.

[SHemmati]

you guys, Mighty and bawang, every kung fu master will only teach you one or a few applications for every movement at most, these applications are usually more complicated than kickboxing simple techniques. 1st, you must learn in which situation those applications are applicable, 2nd, you must deduce more and more applications. for this, you have to imagine different situations, and try to test your techniques. if any idea comes to mind, then you can test it in actual situations. besides, when you're at a high level, you can safely analyze everything without even testing it, in addition, you cannot put yourself into a dangerous situation to learn or test something, that's why you must have a powerful analyzing power, to imagine and analyze every possible case. there's no other way to prepare yourselves for ultimate situations.

if you'd had ever analyzed any form in your minds, the concept of 'fighting in the mind' must not be strange to you! have you ever learned any forms? if yes, have you ever thought on its applications then?

[Brule]

I once fought a worthy adversary, who being an orphan was, 'Nameless' at a chess house in the rain. The only thing was that our battle was in our minds. This type of training proved to be quite useful that day.

[Lucas]

I once fought a worthy adversary, who being an orphan was, 'Nameless' at a chess house in the rain. The only thing was that our battle was in our minds. This type of training proved to be quite useful that day.

I remember that day.

[YouKnowWho]

you have to imagine different situations, and try to test your techniques.

Agree!

First you will need to have a training partner. You just can't develop any useful skill by yourself "solo".

- You can start with "offensive" technique A, your opponent may respond 4 different ways such as B1, B2, B3, B4 (it doesn't have to be 4).
- You then respond with A1, A2, A3, A4. For each of your respond A1, ..., A4, your opponent may respond B11, B12, B13, B14, B21, B22, B23, B24, B31, B32, B33, B34, B41, B42, B43, B44.
- You then respond with A11, A12, A13, A14, A21, A22, A23, A24, A31, A32, A33, A34, A41, A42, A43, A44.
- After you have reached to 4 levels (it doesn't have to be 4), you then have created a set of 4 moves combo drills. You can use those combo drills to train with partner or to train solo.
- Later on you can link all your drills into a from (if you want to).
- You can also switch with your opponent so you can train B1, B11, ... counters.

The advantage of this approach are:

- You can create your own drills or forms. You don't have to depend on TCMA forms.
- You will understand combat in great detail.
- Even the opportunity for you to apply technique A may not be perfect, you go ahead appply it anyway. This way, your opponent's respond may lead you into your next level techniques.

[bigopen]

In my opinion, if you want to learn how to fight you have to go though the 'fire' as it were. If it's not something that really grabs you, I'd stay away from it to be honest. Sparring can give you a real shock, and even that's nothing like the real thing.

Just enjoy your Kung Fu, and accept that you have some limitations. It's a very sad sight seeing boxing coaches with early onset Parkinson's, and others with slurred speech and badly broken noses. Believe me that's not a rare thing in the competitive fighting world. It's a ruthless industry and once you are done no one is interested anymore.

I worked in nightclubs for over ten years and spent two of them doing the doors, there really is very little time and space for chinese martial arts once more than one person get involved. Your sweatshirt becomes a lassoo around your neck once someone grabs hold of it, and your more likely to be hit with a stiletto or a bottle or ashtray by someone you can't see than using your wing chun or similar with someone straight in front of you.

There's a lot of confusion in martial arts and it's important to get things clear before you get led astray. You can do your Kung Fu sparring, enjoy it like a mediation, with a good group and things to develop and work on, but for heaven's sake don't think it's going to be effective during an assault.

If you want the self defense side then you have to train the reality based stuff. Do your research on the body's reaction to extreme stress and fear, and do the hard training with low light, uneven surfaces, weapons, multiple attackers, scenarios, and so on.....

Then come back to your kung fu and see how your angle might have changed.

Hope this helps.

[YouKnowWho]

You can do your Kung Fu sparring, enjoy it like a mediation, with a good group and things to develop and work on, but for heaven's sake don't think it's going to be effective during an assault.

I just don't understand the logic "TCMA training can't be applied during an assault".

If the person who attacks you has 10 years TCMA training, do you think his attack will be more effective on you compare to those attackers who has no MA training?

[B.Tunks]

I love that we still have these circular arguments when the answers are so simple. Fuking get in the habit of sparring real people. End of story. It will cause you to fall in the spectrum of either destroying your confidence in Kung Fu or reaffirming it totally.

Sound advice.

[LFJ]

You may be taught forms first if you aren't a longterm student or if your teacher is the just-for-performance type. Without forms you can already be turned into an expert through the training system apart from forms.

[bigopen]

I just don't understand the logic "TCMA training can't be applied during an assault".

If the person who attacks you has 10 years TCMA training, do you think his attack will be more effective on you compare to those attackers who has no MA training?

It's about knowing what works from first hand experience; it galvanises everything you do when it comes to defending yourself. A huge proportion of BJJ and Muay Thai etc simply won't be effective too.

To answer your question, I admit I think there could be an advantage, but you have to look into motivation behind an assault, and other factors. Cocaine makes people physically stronger, for longer, with a better chin. Alcohol raises emotions. In South Africa we have a drug called 'Tik' which turns people psychotic from sleep deprivation. Mix these up and you have a problem for even very experienced people.

People with no martial arts training are far more likely to compensate by carrying a weapon or going to further extents to fullfill what they need i.e. money for drugs etc etc

If you then mix that with multiple attackers, low light, uneven surfaces, and the constant fight to stop your body going into shutdown and tunnel vision from adrenaline and fear then it's a situation that people in TCMA simply are not trained for.

I'm the first person to promote TCMA by the way, but for the right reasons. That's why I say just enjoy it for what it is but don't get confused.

[RenDaHai]

Shaolin gets a lot of flack,

But to be honest guys, for most its at least 8 hours a day.... Every single day. There is nothing else but training.

You can't spar for 8 hours a day. You can't even just train combat techniques for 8 hours a day.

These guys are not out to be pro sportsmen, nor is there an appropriate sport at present.

The point is the intense purpose, the journey, not any one particular skill. Training contains other things. Sure it does. 8 hours a day for gods sake, it has to. Lots of form, meditation, conditioning, acrobatics, running in the mountains, intense stretching, holding stances, all sorts of things next to the sparring.

Everyone likes to think, I could beat a shaolin monk at chisao, or at BJJ rolling, or in a boxing match and sure at a specific task you may well do. But train along side them for a few days if you can and you won't look down on them.

[MightyB]

I'm the first person to promote TCMA by the way, but for the right reasons. That's why I say just enjoy it for what it is but don't get confused.

Words to live by.

[bigopen]

There's a lot of missing the moon for the finger.

Ch'an, Wu, Yi

Think about how many years the temple has been in peace rather than violence, now I'm not a historian but as far as I know, it's far more time in peace than violence.

Consider that Kungfu has been practiced through most of the the temple's history, and you'll see that although it has been used in times of violence, it has mostly been a focus for meditation and health.

People get the most from Kungfu when they understand it.

ps my Shifu is better than your Shifu.

Only joking.

[MightyB]

Shaolin gets a lot of flack,

You can't spar for 8 hours a day. .

No one's saying you have to spar 8 hours a day... but remember when "playing hands" was fun and something people did enjoy? Whenever a couple of "masters" or kung fu brothers got together - punches were thrown. Not in malice, more as a test of skill and a way to experiment and play. People don't do that anymore. And now they rarely even spar. It's all ego, fear of losing. Winning and losing shouldn't even be a part of it because it's play. And then you have people ripping on Shaolin and all Traditional Martial Arts for good reason. It's because people by and large don't know how to spar in TCMA. Don't believe me, then read every single thread on any of the forums.

So here's the simple answer. Start sparring again. Play hands. Enjoy.

**Observations based on Midwestern United States. I have no idea how it is in the rest of the world.