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Thread: Develop bad habits from sport

  1. #1
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    Develop bad habits from sport

    I had many hours discussion with a Chen Taiji teacher yesterday. He told me that one of his students was a wrestler. When that student trained Chen Taiji form, his head would move infront of his hands. The Chen Taiji teacher tried to correct him but without much luck. It seems that student's body posture was developed at much younger age.

    I got on Google and find some pictures and clips. Indeed, their postures are to put their head before their hands.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img43/2371/wrestling1h.jpg

    http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6206/wrestling2z.jpg

    In the following clip, we can see that wrestling special posture at 0.15, 1.30, ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVCegcfWXp8

    All MA sport can develop bad habits. Should we try to avoid it to start with, or should we try to fix it later on?

    Your thought?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-25-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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    Fix it later on. I think the statement you made a while back covers it really well (to paraphrase):

    "Spar/fight when you are younger, you may have the whole rest of your life to work on body mechanics"

    I had always assumed that everyone fought a lot and at a high intensity in martial arts. The longer I practice the more I realize how false that assumption is and how fortunate I was to spend so much time fighting (I still do to this day). Often what I consider a warm up, most "martial artists" consider a fight. If you wait too long, you will be limited in how much you can fight and how often, as well as how to develop your athleticism to a high level. I find that mistake to be an unfortunate one that is made often .

    Good habits from sport fighting:
    1. Learning to keep your hands up (when necessary)
    2. Learning the VITAL importance of being in shape. No matter how skilled you are, you cannot use it if you are too tired.
    3. Learning that athleticism and strength not only matter, but are often big factors.
    4. Learning how to continue even if you get injured.
    5. Learning to embrace unpleasant situations and come out stronger.
    6. Learning that most people are not trained fighters and that simple mistakes can have huge consequences.
    7. And finally, learning that even after a lot of sport fighting, when you are in your best shape and can kick ass, an older, smaller, well trained traditional artist can still kick your ass with less effort. (This last one is what built the faith in my art(s) to a high level).
    Last edited by Golden Arms; 04-25-2013 at 04:39 PM.
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    Always weed out bad habits at the beginning

    However, bad habits are relevant to the style/situation.

    If you can get them to change their habits from situation to situation, great. If not, you might have to work around it.

    Cheers,
    Josh

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    All MA sport can develop bad habits. Should we try to avoid it to start with, or should we try to fix it later on?

    Your thought?
    This is unavoidable.


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    When that student trained Chen Taiji form, his head would move infront of his hands
    trying to understand what you are saying. You got some more description of what he was doing?

    Was he doing a shot with his head leading? if so then he was doing that wrong.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    trying to understand what you are saying. You got some more description of what he was doing?

    Was he doing a shot with his head leading? if so then he was doing that wrong.
    He was not doing application but doing form such as "single whip". I have always believed that my opponent has to pass my hand, wrist, elbow, upper arm before he can reach to my head. If he can reach to my head without having to pass even my hands, it's just not logical to me.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img43/2371/wrestling1h.jpg
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-25-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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    "single whip"? are we talking clinch work or striking

    single leg?
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  8. #8
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    a taiji form then is that what you mean?
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    "single whip"? are we talking clinch work or striking

    single leg?
    It's Chen Taiji but I assume it's similiar to this. Your hand suppose to be infront of your face.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...Q9QEwBA&dur=93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    a taiji form then is that what you mean?
    We are not talking about any application at all.

    One of my guys is also a wrestler. He likes to put his leading hand right infront and above his leading knee. This way if his opponent shoots at his leading leg, his leading hand can handle the shooting very effective. Since head shot is not allowed in wrestling, this kind of posture seems quite commonly used.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img43/2371/wrestling1h.jpg

    At least the Chinese wrestling posture doesn't have this issue.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img221/2178/bridgeq.png
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-25-2013 at 06:55 PM.
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    looked at you pics that helps. I wouldn't say there head is always in front of there hands. Transitioning I was taught to lead with hands. Wrestling has a rule set like any sport model. they do not take into consideration striking but honestly I think wrestlings best qualities are take downs and dominant controlling positioning on the ground with great movement on the ground.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Arms View Post
    Fix it later on...
    The SC "sleeve grip" is bad habit too. It doesn't disable your opponent's arm. Your opponent can still move his arm freely.

    http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6...sleevehold.jpg

    The 2 points control "arm wrap" is much better since you will have better control on your opponent's arm.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img38/4088/armwrap1.png

    Since it's much easier to get 1 point control "sleeve grip" than to get 2 points control "arm wrap", people take the short cut. Later on it may take a lots of effort to remove that bad habit. Some bad habits are just not that easy to be removed.

    If your goal is "combat" and not just "sport", should your SC instructor skip the "sleeve grip" and go directly into "arm wrap" on day one?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-26-2013 at 11:16 AM.
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    Good question. There is also the issue of factoring in how much experience one can get under a less desirable ruleset (possibly quite a bit more chance to test oneself) vs. under the stricter ruleset we hold ourselves to (but may rarely get to try ourselves out under).
    -Golden Arms-

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    trying to understand what you are saying. You got some more description of what he was doing?

    Was he doing a shot with his head leading? if so then he was doing that wrong.
    he means wrestling stance, college wrestling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    Wrestling has a rule set like any sport model. they do not take into consideration striking
    thats why he calls it a bad habit
    Last edited by bawang; 04-26-2013 at 12:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ View Post
    This is unavoidable.

    A teacher always tell his students that when your opponent pulls back his leading leg, he is going to advance that leg right after. One should pull his opponent when his opponet steps back that leading leg. It's one of the bad habits developed in Judo.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDWtRtJ23cM
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-26-2013 at 12:40 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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