After a master is dead, you may call him grandmaster just to honor his life time contributation. I'll never call anybody who is still alive as GM.Originally Posted by bawang
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After a master is dead, you may call him grandmaster just to honor his life time contributation. I'll never call anybody who is still alive as GM.
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
Bad the Fukc Ass
What about grandmaster flash?
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
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I don't have any students. But when I did, they called me by my given name.
Westerners are just as capable of seeing someone as a father-like teacher as Chinese people are.
For better to learn by
bawang is incapable of understanding this because he's a racist.
the ass assassin
western is not a race.
master dominates dog. father loves son. words reflect thoughts reflect action.
Last edited by bawang; 05-07-2013 at 05:29 PM.
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC
Cha Wang
The problem with a timeline is that not all students are equal. From the gifted to the un-co, each should be able to progress at their own rate, and gather their own lessons as they are able.
What is rank? A measure of pure skill? Is teaching a more important skill than fighting for a senior, or vice versa? Does a poor fighter that works hard over years and comes to understand much of the technique deserve a 'rank?' We all know 12 year old black belts....
We have a traditional take, which is really informal:
There is a line a student crosses when they learn the advanced stuff, and I guess that is the first rank. Call it an equivalent of Black Belt.
(For my Pak Mei brothers, we had 5 guys start Gau Bo Twi just recently).
From there rank distributes as well to my mind. Some guys are better teachers, better at technique, some are better fighters, some are better historians and culture guys, maybe lion dancing too. Rank becomes a matrix of technique, fighting skill, commitment, contribution and seniority.
In our school we have a cadre of senior students that teach, each has a special set of skills, personality, whatever, to offer. Sifu keeps it all under his control.
Like Bwang said, you can be demoted for being a dhick weed too. Usually around not knowing your manners, and showing disrespect. Seen some ass kickings too...in the middle ranks to sort out issues.
Like David said, rank is only relevant to people who know the score, and if you know the score, why do you need rank insignia? Its not the army.
No free rides due to your 'rank' , you have to maintain it daily. Its more about the respect you have earned over your career than who you can whip.
I'm one of those that believe the title Master is a compliment, not a title. I think its an English thing anyway. Every wrinkled up old life long kung fu player I've known was called Sifu. Or one of the family titles, uncle, grandpa, etc.
Last edited by Yum Cha; 05-07-2013 at 05:29 PM.
Guangzhou Pak Mei Kung Fu School, Sydney Australia,
Sifu Leung, Yuk Seng
Established 1989, Glebe Australia
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It's in fencing: Prevost Master D'Armes. I have two of them actually, one from SJSU and ROTC and the other from the USFCA. Our examination was both physical and academic. I'm amused that we'd be so divisive to make such a distinction. If you're a master, you should master both. My fencing exam was i front of a board exam of three certified masters presiding. There was a written exam, an oral exam, a demonstrative exam and a thesis had to be submitted and approved. It was quite rigorous.
That being said, people call me master or shifu a lot, given my position. I used to demur at the label, but now I don't bother to do so as much. It's not that I think I'm some sort of master. Far from it. Given the number of genuine masters that I've met, I know I'm way behind their level. At the same time, I've met a lot of so-called masters that proudly declare their title on their business cards, and I feel I'm on a higher level then them. Of course, it's not about comparison, so it really depends on who is calling me master. If it's some little kid, or some nooB, I let it pass. If it's from the forum here, you guys are probably adding 'bator' as a suffix. If it's from some other master, I'll say 'nali?'
Good one, L. I always thought Master/Grandmaster was parallel to Father/Grandfather.
Gene Ching
Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
Author of Shaolin Trips
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wyee guk
No shiznit!
My teacher was always Sifu to me and Sigung to my students. He was always like a dad to me and never had a problem calling him pop.
No one in my school uses the term master or GM.
It's not what you know, but who's first with the best.
the ass assassin
you are a man of great honer. im cry tear.
in wombat combat, you must refer to your teacher as "my lord", in a british accent.
the grandmaster is referred to as "king of kings, lord of lords, the lion of yahuda".
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC
Itinerant practitioner
It has become that.
In the mid-late 80's the term emerged from the filial recognitions given in Kung Fu schools.
People were more familiar with the idea of master's master being the grandmaster as opposed to the grandfather.
It was easier to say grandmaster than sigung or great grandmaster than dai sigung and so on.
The terms were anglified, but in Chinese martial arts, the term "grandmaster" is pretty new an is strictly associated with interest in EuroCentric countries including North, Central and South America.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Registered User
I don't really understand the hang up about the term "master."
When it comes to martial arts instructors many people seem to jump to the notion of "master/servant" relationship, but that's the wrong 'master.' We have people with Master's degrees, we have master carpenters, master plumbers, master electricians, master welders, master craftsmen, and so on, all denoting a high degree of skill/knowledge... What's the big deal about being a martial arts master?
Anyway, to the main topic, I'm against applying any universal rules to martial arts, as I love the variety available in the MA world, but I believe that rank should be a combination of ability and knowledge. Everyone should have both to varying degrees, but we all have our own areas where we excel (and where we struggle).
[I've never been a gifted athlete, but I've always been a successful scholar--I certainly want my ability to be as high as it can be, but I'm never going to be amazing at applying my gongfu, however, I still believe/hope I can be an excellent teacher.]
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The 8th Dan Kendo test in Japan.xhttp://cookdingskitchen.blogspot.com...nship.html?m=0
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Why is it necessary to have ranking at all? Isn't it more logical to evaluate a person's skill level (both physical and academic) and teach based on that? When the skill level goes up you teach something that will improve it more. I realize the "business" consequences of that but I'm ignoring it.
Moderator
Hello,
One reason to have ranking is in order to classify students at a somewhat equal level. Brown belts training with brown rather than white or black for example. Also, by having a rank structure a student can go to another school, of the same lineage/organization and be able to train at essentially the same level. There may be some differences, but in an organized lineage those would be minimal. If you were a 3rd level then everyone would know what you had learned or at least be pretty close.
Correct me if I am mistaken; my understanding of rank is that it was developed by Dr. Kano as a means of promoting Judo to the public. Rank provided a baseline for people to train and provided the opportunity to allow people to train with and compete against those of the same level. It provided a structured program to allow a steady and measurable method of progression from beginner to advanced level.
Ranking was then embraced as a means of marketing and of making money.
When I did WT I trained in Germany and then came back to America. I will never forget a conversation I had with one of the heads of the US in AZ. He asked what level my primary instructor was in Germany and I told him he was a 2nd level. This guy then told me how he was a 3rd level and I replied that my Sihing in Germany would "eat him for breakfast" which was true. When some other visited from Germany this same person called me to ask if I knew how they trained over there. The rank did not mean anything without the skill behind it. The person in the US had all of the technical stuff down for the 3rd level but my Sihing in Germany had put in a lot more time and had a more thorough grasp of the concepts and basics, IMHO, which made him more effective again in my opinion. Also, several of those I trained with in Germany really did not seem to care if they advanced much beyond 1st or 2nd level unless they were trying to teach as their means of making a living or for recognition.
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Then you are in luck. No diversions.what if your lineage doesnt use ranking?
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