Ranking: academic or physical?

[YouKnowWho]

In ACSCA, any level above 4th degree black belt are "contributation" reward. Contributation such as:

- train your combat team,
- publish DVD, book, ...
- offer workshop,
- offer tournament,
- offer demonstration,
- bring in new combat idea into the system,
- ...

[YouKnowWho]

4-5 years for a Black belt- "same time to get your high school diploma.

I have a guy who has been with me for 12 years. He just obtained his blue belt last year. Before that he had good time to wear his white belt in the MMA gym that he joints in. That MMA gym offers him to be a grappling instructor after he gets his black belt. That's was why he took his blue belt test last year and may take his 1st degree black belt next year. IMO, 13 years is more than enough for any 1st degree black belt.

I do think it's not fair for a 12 years experienced white belt to defeat another 6 years experienced black belt in different system. You may not care about your rank but for those who were defeated by you, they may say that you are cheating by hidding your skill level and experience behind your white belt.

[MasterKiller]

I do think it's not fair for a 12 years experienced white belt to defeat another 6 years experienced black belt in different system. You may not care about your rank but for those who were defeated by you, they may say that you are cheating by hidding your skill level and experience behind your white belt.

Once you have your "black" belt, all bets are off. If you don't think your black belt is equivalent to a black belt in another system, I'd say you probably shouldn't be wearing black at all.

[Dragonzbane76]

Honestly, I don't care for the term "Master," anyway.

To much "loaded" connotation for me.

[YouKnowWho]

Honestly, I don't care for the term "Master," anyway.

If US constituation allows the US president to run more than 2 terms, all presidents will try to run for their 3rd term.

- The 1st time when someone calls you "master", you may tell him don't do that.
- The 100th time when someone calls you "master", you may think it's not that bad.
- The 1000th time when someone "doesn't call" you "master", you will feel it's an insult.

This is the bad part of the human nature.

[omarthefish]

I don't think "Master" should have a time table. Some guy who trains 2 hours a week for 12 years shouldn't have the same claim to "mastery"as someone training 12 to 15 hours a week for 12 years.
.

Well put.
That is why many organizations of "hours of in class/instruction" as a guideline.
Which I agree with.

In keeping with the academic metaphor, I dunno about advanced degrees but for a BA that "4 years" assumes roughly 12-15 hours of in class time per week with about the same amount of at home study. So it's roughly 30 hours/week just for a BA.

[Brule]

So, when are we going to get into the whole 'Grand Master' discussion?

[sanjuro_ronin]

In keeping with the academic metaphor, I dunno about advanced degrees but for a BA that "4 years" assumes roughly 12-15 hours of in class time per week with about the same amount of at home study. So it's roughly 30 hours/week just for a BA.

Indeed.
So you see where I am going with this.
The JKA experimented with this and I a few organizations, like the IKO, have "training time" as a guideline for when a person is in line to take a test.
Old ITF guidelines were:
To Black belt, minimum 5 years with minimum 6 hours per week.
After 1st degree BB:
2 years for your 2nd, then 3 years for your 3rd after your second, then 4 years to 4th after your 3rd and so on...
After your 5th, the degrees were awarded based on contributions to the art and so forth.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So, when are we going to get into the whole 'Grand Master' discussion?

In theory, the moment a person has trained another to the level of "master" then he/she is a "grand master".

[Brule]

A lot of times though it's by default and time served. ie; I've been training 45 years so I should be at grand master level by now. or it's given to you by the people.

For myself, i'm not a big fan of titles let alone ones done by time served.

[Miqi]

There is never one answer to these things. As a mark of respect, in some occasional, specific cultural and personal circumstances, prefixing someone's name with "master" can be a wholesome act.

As for the others, who turn "Master" into an actual prefix, like an academic or aristocratic title, why on earth would they do such a thing? How much it rubs against the grain to call another person "master" - I can't even stand these ceremonies where people grovel on their knees to become in-door students. Your actual level is your level, nothing else.

[Empty_Cup]

I favor merit-based promotion with a minimum threshold of time spent at level. What you want to do is set a minimum standard for the rank. Above and beyond this you'll always have people at different levels of performance.

A min. # of hours behind the wheel + demonstrating understanding by a written and practical test gets you a driver's license. It doesn't make you a champion race car driver...

So, for example, I like to see rankings setup like this:

White/Beginner - X hrs class time minimum
Demonstrate skill X
Demonstrate skill Y
Demonstrate skill Z
etc.

[bawang]

There is never one answer to these things. As a mark of respect, in some occasional, specific cultural and personal circumstances, prefixing someone's name with "master" can be a wholesome act.

As for the others, who turn "Master" into an actual prefix, like an academic or aristocratic title, why on earth would they do such a thing? How much it rubs against the grain to call another person "master" - I can't even stand these ceremonies where people grovel on their knees to become in-door students. Your actual level is your level, nothing else.

shifu dont mean measter. it means teacher father.

in class insist your students call you father. see how many show up next time.

westerner can roleplay a dog, but cant roleplay a son.

I favor merit-based promotion with a minimum threshold of time spent at level. What you want to do is set a minimum standard for the rank. Above and beyond this you'll always have people at different levels of performance.

A min. # of hours behind the wheel + demonstrating understanding by a written and practical test gets you a driver's license. It doesn't make you a champion race car driver...

So, for example, I like to see rankings setup like this:

White/Beginner - X hrs class time minimum
Demonstrate skill X
Demonstrate skill Y
Demonstrate skill Z
etc.

that aint traditional kung fu, thats some made up sh1t.

[md1]

In theory, the moment a person has trained another to the level of "master" then he/she is a "grand master".

The way I have always understood you couldn't be a GM until one of your students became a master AND had students of his own, much the same way you can't be a grandpa until your kids had kids.

I always learned it as like a family structure.

[bawang]

The way I have always understood you couldn't be a GM until one of your students became a master AND had students of his own, much the same way you can't be a grandpa until your kids had kids.

I always learned it as like a family structure.

no such thing as grandmaster. the term is teacher and grandfather.

westerners use the term "master" because its a game of pretend, like in bdsm. you get on all four naked and someone spanks you and you call him master, but when you get up its over. its all a game. but when you call someone father, brother, then it gets too real.


keep your eye out for those students that always call you master. those are the snakes you gotta watch out for.