BJJ beginner question

[Frost]

Frost
-yes, I need to train more. I've only taken one class, so I think that would be obvious?

1 When i wrote that its the foundational position, the guard was the alteration that Helio made to what his brother taught him that enabled a smaller guy to survive against a larger guy
2 What difference does it make who the biter was? They were both bjj guys and it was the exact position I described
3 I have been punched in the face and i have bitten, when punched I recovered quickly, the person I bit went to the hospital, and may have been a plastic surgery candidate afterwards-

While I appreciate your help, the tone of your posts has taken a sarcastic and derisive turn, unfortunately. Keep it out of your posts to me.

Im sorry but i have answered these same ill informed opinions before and mostly from trolls so i tend to be short and to the point. You need to train more and think less.
For a start ryan bit the guy from mount, the guard is fundermentlly different because you have control of their hips in that position and can control their base and balance, you cant do that from mount
secondly i have be bitten and also pounded by punches in MMA, when you are on the floor and cant absorb the blow its much worse than taking a standing punch
thirdly helio still believed in the 4 pillar positions, mount guard side control and back mount he never said anything about the guard being the most important so its a straw argument at best, trolling at worst

[Wayfaring]

However, from my perspective, seeing this vulnerability (of being bitten) in the guard position throws a bit of a monkey wrench into all of that- if they get your neck in the right place(s) it could, potentially, be life threatening.

You are being over dramatic about a vulnerability. Although it's a possibility, it is also a possibility to crank an elbow into someone's mouth as they open it to bite you and break their jaw. It's a possibility to sweep them so you're in mount. It's a possibility that you can use your hands to push or punch his head in a direction every time he tries to bite you and prevent him from catching hold.

[guy b.]

I am taking BJJ at a self defense (as opposed to sport) oriented school-Gracie Jiu jitsu.
It seems to me that when someone is in my guard (if I'm using the term right), when I'm on my back with my legs wrapped around their hips and their head hugged down next to mine with my right arm wrapped around their head and my left hand on their right upper arm, hugging them close, that I am very vulnerable to being bitten in this position in a streetfight- it would be very easy for the guy on top to bite my neck, shoulder, chest, etc..

Any thoughts on this? am I wrong?

You are correct. A particular weakness of bjj is the possibility of meeting an assailant that will not abide by normal conventions of physical combat and will bite, gouge, head stomp, and stab at the first opportunity. The positions used in bjj render the exponent particularly vulnerable to this kind of psychopathic attack. Thankfully such attackers are rare. But it is worth considering.

[guy b.]

Really it depends how you use jiu jitsu. It is great (without parallel) as an emergency fallback if you end up getting taken down. It is idiotic as a first line self defence in real fighting

[YouKnowWho]

No matter how complete that you intend to train in "sport", there is always something missing. To be able to dodge rock throwing from 20 feet away is one good example. The thing is where will you draw the line? The "sport" environment can help you to develop skill. It can also help you to develop some bad habit if you are not careful.

http://imageshack.us/a/img687/6206/wrestling2z.jpg

[guy b.]

No matter how complete that you intend to train in "sport", there is always something missing. To be able to dodge rock throwing from 20 feet away is one good example. The thing is where will you draw the line? The "sport" environment can help you to develop skill. It can also help you to develop some bad habit if you are not careful.

http://imageshack.us/a/img687/6206/wrestling2z.jpg

Western wrestling is pure buffoonery. Far better something like judo for a real fight

[YouKnowWho]

it would be very easy for the guy on top to bite my neck, shoulder, chest, etc..

All position will have "leak". It's up to you whether you know how to "seal that leak" or not. For example, when you get your opponent into a one arm control head lock, his free hand can poke at your eye at that moment. If you can take him down fast enough, you can prevent his free hand attack.

[guy b.]

All position will have "leak". It's up to you whether you know how to "seal that leak" or not. For example, when you get your opponent into a one arm control head lock, his free hand can poke at your eye at that moment. If you can take him down fast enough, you can prevent his free hand attack.

Why put your eye where someone can gouge it unless you have to?

[YouKnowWho]

Why put your eye where someone can gouge it unless you have to?

You may be able to guide your opponent's arms to a safe place, but you can't keep his arms there forever. If your body is close enough to your opponent's body, his hand should be able to reach to your eyes, groin area, ... That's the price you have to pay to be in the clinching range. This is why, groin attack, eye gauge, bite, ... should be included as part of your combat training even in the "sport" environment. This way, your body will be fully alert and be able to re-adjust your head/body position.

[Lucas]

You may be able to guide your opponent's arms to a safe place, but you can't keep his arms there forever. If your body is close enough to your opponent's body, his hand should be able to reach to your eyes, groin area, ... That's the price you have to pay to be in the clinching range. This is why, groin attack, eye gauge, bite, ... should be included as part of your combat training even in the "sport" environment. This way, your body will be fully alert.

I agree. Too many sportsmen get comfortable with the idea that these types of attacks are not allowed, this even goes so far as to say they are completely non-effective in any scenario. The most often used example is a famous, extremely skilled practitioner defending against such attacks. The obviously glaring hole in that argument is; Are you as skilled as that man? And are you dense enough to think that everyone will always be able to defend against these attacks 100% of the time against anyone in the world?? If you put your thumb on someones eye and start to push as hard as you can, they freak out. Doesnt matter who you are, if you get into position and can feel the eye in true danger, your body reacts, and you try to escape.

How many of you are hardcore enough to lose an eye knowingly?

[Dragonzbane76]

Western wrestling is pure buffoonery. Far better something like judo for a real fight

if you are speaking of "Pro" wrestling then yes. If you are speaking of traditional wrestling "collegiate" style or free then I would have to say that many of the elements present within it can be used to great effect if you apply them. Of course if you are working within the system of rules then it is limited in "street" sense, but it can be adapted very proficiently to "street", but any style or styles can be. It's a fool that thinks a whole "system" of fighting is "buffoonery"

[guy b.]

You may be able to guide your opponent's arms to a safe place, but you can't keep his arms there forever. If your body is close enough to your opponent's body, his hand should be able to reach to your eyes, groin area, ... That's the price you have to pay to be in the clinching range. This is why, groin attack, eye gauge, bite, ... should be included as part of your combat training even in the "sport" environment. This way, your body will be fully alert and be able to re-adjust your head/body position.

Why clinch unless you have to?

[Dragonzbane76]

I agree. Too many sportsmen get comfortable with the idea that these types of attacks are not allowed, this even goes so far as to say they are completely non-effective in any scenario. The most often used example is a famous, extremely skilled practitioner defending against such attacks. The obviously glaring hole in that argument is; Are you as skilled as that man? And are you dense enough to think that everyone will always be able to defend against these attacks 100% of the time against anyone in the world?? If you put your thumb on someones eye and start to push as hard as you can, they freak out. Doesnt matter who you are, if you get into position and can feel the eye in true danger, your body reacts, and you try to escape.

How many of you are hardcore enough to lose an eye knowingly?

I agree that anyone can become complacent in such areas. But my money would be on the guy that spends a lot of time on the ground and is comfortable in those positions more so than the guy that thinks he's going to eye gouge and fish hook his way out of them.

[guy b.]

I agree that anyone can become complacent in such areas. But my money would be on the guy that spends a lot of time on the ground and is comfortable in those positions more so than the guy that thinks he's going to eye gouge and fish hook his way out of them.

Depends if you get a psychopath or a normal person

[Dragonzbane76]

there are always variables to anything.