Is WC/VT a martial art for old guys?

[Grumblegeezer]

On another forum I visit, a couple of MMA fanboys were bashing WC (same old story) and one of them wrapped up his post saying that Wing Chun was just for old guys. His intent was to "dis" the art, but I actually kinda liked that remark. I'll be 58 next month, and while I may still be a kid in Joy's eyes, I'd definitely qualify as a geezer to the youngsters posting on that other forum.

Along the same lines, I've encountered a few posts here where some of you have mentioned the wear and tear on the body that happens practicing MT, BJJ, boxing, and other competitive arts. As recently as about five years ago, I was still near my peak strength and engaging in grappling and occasional hard contact training. I was slower than in my youth, but I had more endurance, toughness, and most of all experience. But I healed more slowly. And then I started breaking things. First I messed up my shoulder, then worse, I had a serious lower back injury last year. Now, this spring my left knee gave out (I've already had the right ACL re-constructed and have had multiple fractures). Anyway I just had arthroscopic surgery last week. I go in to have my post-op conference with the doc today. But he already told me that I cannot continue to go at things like a 25-year old anymore. My physical therapist flat out told me to give up martial arts. Screw that. But I can't afford to keep wrecking my body ...physically or financially.

So, what does this all mean? Some of you guys may still be able to go at it full bore for a long time. But each of our bodies ages differently. Maybe the smart thing is to scale back when you reach the point when your body won't take it anymore. For me, maybe that means no more grappling and throws, and no knee locks or sweeps either.

If I let the other stuff go (FMA & grappling) and just focus on WC ...especially the "art" of WC, I should be fine. But is it still WC if you limit your legwork, if you keep to light sparring and light chi-sau and don't test what you do against heavy resistance? In short, is it still really WC if you start to practice it like an old man? Is this truly an art that we can practice into advanced age, or not.

A saying I've always been fond of recalls how WC was supposedly founded by the aged Ng Mui and her young student Yim Wing Chun. It states, "If your WC couldn't be applied effectively by an old woman or a young girl, then you aren't doing it right." Is this true? Is WC truly an art that can even be used by the old, or is this just a quaint story?

[YouKnowWho]

I'll be 58 next month, ...

If you have not received your medicare card, you are still young by definition. You may not be able to jump high any more, besides that all your other skills should be about the same.

It's easy to develop combat skill (练功 Lian Gong). It's hard to maintain it (养功 Yang Gong). How to "maintain" your combat skill through your old age is an art. Onething for sure is if you don't use it, you will lost it forever. When you were young, you do it because you enjoy of doing it. When you are old, you do it because you are afraid of losing it.

[jesper]

Your Whole premise is that you dont do hard sparring etc in WC then ?

I have met gents in there 60' still doing MT and judo. They may not compete anymore but they still train just as hard as when they were younger.

at 45 I find that I can still dish out some hurt in hard sparring, but **** it takes a while to heal which for me is the biggest difference then when I was younger.

Dont forget that fx mma is relatively new, so give it a couple years more and you will start see people who have trained for 20+ years. They will still be going strong training wise, but will ofcourse not do as many hard sparring sessions or fights as they used to.

EDIT:
since my son started MT I have given it a go Again since I was there with him anyways so now I train MT 3 days a week and WC 2 days. I can tell you that although I was fairly fit before Im now in a shape I havent been in for the last 10 years or so

[trubblman]

Theres nothing wrong with being an old mans martial art. Its something that I have heard in Kali. Old man martial arts is best. How to defeat a stronger faster bigger opponent. To me thats the core of martial arts.

[anerlich]

I'm 58 already.

I don't GAF what other people think about how I train or what arts I do.

[GlennR]

Well seems this is the pensioner thread!

I feel your pain, literally and metaphorically speaking, its frustrating as the body breaks down with aging.

Personally, i think different styles require a different level of physical intensity to achieve the same levels.
Id put MT right up there as possibly the toughest on the body...its just tough.. and to maintain the level id reached was just too punishing on an aging body so ive moved back to boxing which ill focus on as its not quite as taxing IMO.

Moving onto WC, yes, id agree you could label it an old mans style purely from an intetnsity level. Its just not as physically taxing as MT, as an example, to do but ,more importantly IMO, maintain a reasonably high level.

And i think youve got to look at the context for what the styles are designed for. MT, boxing, BJJ and so on are combat styles which could go up to an hour... so fitness and conditioning is a must.
WC is self defense system, designed for that second or two you have a confrontation..... conditioning has much less impact in this arena.

[dfl]

A saying I've always been fond of recalls how WC was supposedly founded by the aged Ng Mui and her young student Yim Wing Chun. It states, "If your WC couldn't be applied effectively by an old woman or a young girl, then you aren't doing it right." Is this true? Is WC truly an art that can even be used by the old, or is this just a quaint story?

When Yip Man came to HK in 1949, he was at least in his 50's. He was old, small, penniless, and had no muscles. Yet he convinced, not just by talking, large, strong guys who trained in traditional CMA like Leung Sheung, and fast, young guys who trained in western style boxing like Wong Shun Leung, that he was worthy to be their teacher. He did not do it by punching them out, showing his powerful knockout punch or his speed, none of which he possessed. When you are at YM's age, you should reflect on exactly what kind of WC skills he possessed, even at that age. And how to attain it.

In 1960 Muhammad Ali (then named Cassius Clay) won the heavyweight gold medal at the Rome Olympics. In 1996 (age 54), he struggled to light the fire at the Atlanta games. No disrespect intended, but after training for decades, do you think he could still fight effectively at that age?

[KPM]

If your martial art relies on strength and speed, then your abilities are naturally going to fade with age.....as your strength and speed fade with age. If your martial art relies more on technique, timing and tactics, then your abilities will last well into old age. I think that if Bruce Lee had lived, he would have come full circle and would today be practicing something very much like the Wing Chun he started out with. Even his natural speed and agility would have faded with time.

BTW...Muhammed Ali suffered from Parkinson's Disease. So he is not exactly a fair comparison.

[anerlich]

In 1960 Muhammad Ali (then named Cassius Clay) won the heavyweight gold medal at the Rome Olympics. In 1996 (age 54), he struggled to light the fire at the Atlanta games. No disrespect intended, but after training for decades, do you think he could still fight effectively at that age?

M. Ali had a few other issues besides age, like Parkinson's. Most active 54 year olds are rather more sprightly than he appeared at that age.

My WC instructor is about 53, my BJJ instructor (who also fought professional kickboxing and Shooto) is 50. I'd back either of those guys against anyone who hadn't fought professionally.

I attended a seminar on restraint and control techniques by a guy in his late 70's who taught such arrest techniques to cops. This guy looked like a typical old geezer, totally innocuous, but had formidable old man strength and was scarily competent. Anyone who messes with him is in for a really nasty surprise.

I'm 58. I don't spar hard with punches and kicks anymore, mainly due to having had very expensive dental implants, and frankly because punches to the face have lost most of their earlier appeal, but I still grapple pretty hard. Hardly my signature move, but I hit a berimbolo on a blue belt a few nights back, and that's not something you can manage without a certain amount of agility and flexibility.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Grumblegeezer;1234154]On another forum I visit, a couple of MMA fanboys were bashing WC (same old story) and one of them wrapped up his post saying that Wing Chun was just for old guys. His intent was to "dis" the art, but I actually kinda liked that remark. I'll be 58 next month, and while I may still be a kid in Joy's eyes, I'd definitely qualify as a geezer to the youngsters posting on that other forum.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey young geezer.Sorry to hear of your challenges.I am about 22 years ahead of you age wise.
Still climbing the wing chun mountain.

Ip man began around 12 years of age- ditto for Fong sifu. Ip Man when he was in his 70s still was doing chi sao with Ho Kam ming using his legs and hands. There are "principles" in wing chun but
"adjustmenT" is an important principle in connection with the others.

[KungFubar]

When Yip Man came to HK in 1949, he was at least in his 50's. He was old, small, penniless, and had no muscles. Yet he convinced, not just by talking, large, strong guys who trained in traditional CMA like Leung Sheung, and fast, young guys who trained in western style boxing like Wong Shun Leung, that he was worthy to be their teacher. He did not do it by punching them out, showing his powerful knockout punch or his speed, none of which he possessed. When you are at YM's age, you should reflect on exactly what kind of WC skills he possessed, even at that age. And how to attain it.

In 1960 Muhammad Ali (then named Cassius Clay) won the heavyweight gold medal at the Rome Olympics. In 1996 (age 54), he struggled to light the fire at the Atlanta games. No disrespect intended, but after training for decades, do you think he could still fight effectively at that age?

George Foreman won the World Championship at age 45 and many feel he beat Biggs at 48, he would have fought Lennox Lewis had the decision gone his way. I would have loved to see him fight tyson. Foreman was still fighting professionally in his fifties.

[GlennR]

In 1960 Muhammad Ali (then named Cassius Clay) won the heavyweight gold medal at the Rome Olympics. In 1996 (age 54), he struggled to light the fire at the Atlanta games. No disrespect intended, but after training for decades, do you think he could still fight effectively at that age?

Sweeping generalisations never do anybody any good....

This reasonably skilled fellow is 48 yo... oh and LH Champ of the world

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Hopkins

Give him a call in 6 years and see how you go

[wingchunIan]

one of the main reasons I gave up MT was because I wanted a martial art that was going to be viable to train and use into old age. Some of my senior kungfu uncles in HK are seriously capable fighters and they are in their late sixties and early seventies

[anerlich]

Plenty of martial artists of various disciplines training to an advanced age.

Keiko Fukuda was teaching Judo into her late 90's
Helio Gracie was still rolling in his 80's and beyond.
Gogen Yamaguchi by some accounts still "had it" until close to the end.
Morio Higaonna is still training hard on kata and makiwara at 74 and is still one of the last people on earth I'd want to mess with.

I would agree MT training would be harder to sustain than many other arts.

No reason anyone has to pick one art and do just that for their whole life, either. There's a cornucopia of them worth exploring, some better suited for the young, some for the elderly. Life is too rich to suffer restrictions, especially those self imposed.

[GlennR]

I would agree MT training would be harder to sustain than many other arts.

No reason anyone has to pick one art and do just that for their whole life, either. There's a cornucopia of them worth exploring, some better suited for the young, some for the elderly. Life is too rich to suffer restrictions, especially those self imposed

Well put Andrew.
I moved onto MT 4 years ago as i wanted the sparring and the intensity it offered. It seemed a logical choice from WC to get those things.
But its hard on the body so ive moved onto boxing, which seemed the next logical step as id acquired a lot of the basic skills in MT, and its not as hard on the body.

All i can sya is that it all been a great experience and ,having moved from one style to the other, its great to see the overlaps and the differences. If anything it keeps the mind young and fresh.

Funny enough, i can see me drifting back to WC in the next 5-10 years, boxing isnt a young mans sport and i think it would be nice to go full circle and see how i turn out.

Maybe my own style..... glenn kan do