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Thread: Connection

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Youre wasting your time with a few of them here trying to explain there are different styles and approaches to WC...... as there are in boxing

    But hey, have a crack at it!
    I don't understand how some one can't agree with that. If you take the position that my idea and my approach is the only right way or best way then how can you explain why there are others using a bad idea or wrong approach who can beat you and achieve levels of performance you haven't? I have the superior way but suck at doing it?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    I don't understand how some one can't agree with that. If you take the position that my idea and my approach is the only right way or best way then how can you explain why there are others using a bad idea or wrong approach who can beat you and achieve levels of performance you haven't? I have the superior way but suck at doing it?
    Ive used the Ali- Frazier comparison here a few times. You wouldnt see two more disimilar styles of boxing but no one could hardly fault either..... they even acknowledged they had different styles.

    But say that to a WC purist (WSLPBVT guys come to mind) and get ready for feet stamping and hissy fits

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    I don't understand how some one can't agree with that. If you take the position that my idea and my approach is the only right way or best way then how can you explain why there are others using a bad idea or wrong approach who can beat you and achieve levels of performance you haven't? I have the superior way but suck at doing it?
    This forum is for expounding on how one's own way is superior and everyone else's "clueless" (guess who I'm quoting?), backed up by the posting of large numbers of videos of your instructor beating on hapless students in chi sao while decrying chi sao contests.

    Your sort of common sense has no place here.
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  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Youre wasting your time with a few of them here trying to explain there are different styles and approaches to WC...... as there are in boxing

    But hey, have a crack at it!
    That there are different approaches to wing chun is as clear as night and day. I don't think anyone would argue this

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    I don't understand how some one can't agree with that. If you take the position that my idea and my approach is the only right way or best way then how can you explain why there are others using a bad idea or wrong approach who can beat you and achieve levels of performance you haven't? I have the superior way but suck at doing it?
    It would be nonsensical to argue that all of the different approaches to wing chun are relative and equally valid because they all do things differently. These different approaches can only be equally valid if what they are doing is completely irrelevant. If any of it is relevant to fighting then some ideas are better and some are worse.

    There are plenty of competitive wrestlers that would destroy bjj white and some blue belts in a ground grappling situation simply because of familiarity, strength and athleticism. But nobody would argue that wrestling is a better approach than bjj for fighting on the ground.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    That there are different approaches to wing chun is as clear as night and day. I don't think anyone would argue this
    Surely you jest..... thats the No 1 argument on here

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Surely you jest..... thats the No 1 argument on here
    I've never seen anyone argue this. It is an objective fact directly visible to the eyes of everyone with an internet connection (or a few years in wing chun). Most arguments appear to be about the validity of the different approaches.

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    I've never seen anyone argue this. It is an objective fact directly visible to the eyes of everyone with an internet connection (or a few years in wing chun). Most arguments appear to be about the validity of the different approaches.
    We all agree that like with boxing bjj and other martial arts, there are various approaches to wing chun. There are also various levels of performance for example some perform at semi pro level and others at different levels is that not true? This is also true of boxing bjj and other martial arts.

    I think that it is not your idea or approach that is so important but rather how well you can execute or perform your idea or approach that matters. Arguing about how my idea is better or more valid is arguing about something that does not matter. The other thing I've learned is much of this may be tied to an individual's level of performance. This is something I've seen in other martial arts too.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    It would be nonsensical to argue that all of the different approaches to wing chun are relative and equally valid because they all do things differently. These different approaches can only be equally valid if what they are doing is completely irrelevant. If any of it is relevant to fighting then some ideas are better and some are worse.

    There are plenty of competitive wrestlers that would destroy bjj white and some blue belts in a ground grappling situation simply because of familiarity, strength and athleticism. But nobody would argue that wrestling is a better approach than bjj for fighting on the ground.
    I am not saying that any and all ideas or approaches are good. That is not true in boxing bjj or wing chun but that there is no one right best way or idea or approach in boxing bjj or wing chun. We can see that all martial arts have a great deal of flexibility in expression that allow for a wide range of ideas or approaches.

    I know a few grapplers that would argue with your second paragraph since wrestlers do quite well in mma. Wrestling lacks subs and guard but experience shows is a great base for ground and pound.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    I'd say this is true if only looking at their usage in application (thier own individual styles or preferences while fighting). But IMO, the system of WCK (core concepts/principles) is complete and has no reason to evolve regardless of someone's personal skill or preference in fighting. It will only devolve if you change it.

    On a side note, curriculms can evolve to suit the needs, but that is another subject apart from the system itself or one's personal evolution of fighting skills/application of the art.
    You know what you have a fair point. I get what your saying in terms of keeping the core values the same etc.. I guess i can no longer say im a wing chun man then

    I use the concepts but also use other ideas to express them. Funny enough you can find alot of systems share similar ideas. Even as far as BJJ and the use of triangles. For me wing chun has proven to be a great spring board but i feel i need to evolve as a "martial artist" so now wing chun is my slave not the other way round.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    I've never seen anyone argue this. It is an objective fact directly visible to the eyes of everyone with an internet connection (or a few years in wing chun). Most arguments appear to be about the validity of the different approaches.
    Look harder then
    Someone saying you are doing it all wrong is basically saying you arent doing it at all.

    Im yet to here one of the WSLPBVT chaps go "thats fine what you are doing, we just do it differently".... ive even seen them say in regards to Alan Orr "thats not WC"

  12. #57
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    I am not saying that any and all ideas or approaches are good. That is not true in boxing bjj or wing chun but that there is no one right best way or idea or approach in boxing bjj or wing chun. We can see that all martial arts have a great deal of flexibility in expression that allow for a wide range of ideas or approaches.
    I think the main difference in the arts you listed (boxing, Bjj) and WC or most TCMA in general is that the ones listed are tried and tested MA's. What I mean is that in boxing you really don't have a list of moves for this or that. What works works same in BJJ. WC and a lot of CMA's deal in "theories" and never step out of that realm to try and see if there "theories" work.

    I'm not saying some do not, but more of a general blanket statement.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    There are plenty of competitive wrestlers that would destroy bjj white and some blue belts in a ground grappling situation simply because of familiarity, strength and athleticism. But nobody would argue that wrestling is a better approach than bjj for fighting on the ground.
    Funny you should bring that up, but that's kind of exactly what they are starting to argue lately. When you add in strikes, and give the competitive wrestler good fundamentals training to avoid submissions. And when BJJ people don't train with striking allowed ever. Nobody is immune to delusion because they train a particular art.

    So what's the next logical thing to do? Pull wrestling out of the Olympics. But that's another story.

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Look harder then
    Someone saying you are doing it all wrong is basically saying you arent doing it at all.

    Im yet to here one of the WSLPBVT chaps go "thats fine what you are doing, we just do it differently".... ive even seen them say in regards to Alan Orr "thats not WC"
    No, arguing that your approach to wing chun is flawed or mistaken is not equivalent to arguing that you are not doing wing chun at all. There are all kinds of crappy wing chun around. The majority of wing chun is very poor in fact, but there is lots of it around.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    I am not saying that any and all ideas or approaches are good. That is not true in boxing bjj or wing chun but that there is no one right best way or idea or approach in boxing bjj or wing chun. We can see that all martial arts have a great deal of flexibility in expression that allow for a wide range of ideas or approaches.
    I don't think it is possible to find a martial arts with such a proscribed curriculum as bjj. You are confusing flexibility of expression in sporting arts like bjj (e.g. type of guard, top game vs bottom game, speed player vs pressure) with flexibility in thinking. You will not find flexibility in thinking in bjj beyond a few whackos like Telles. Once the fundamental principles of bjj are broken it no longer works as bjj. Same goes for wing chun.

    I know a few grapplers that would argue with your second paragraph since wrestlers do quite well in mma. Wrestling lacks subs and guard but experience shows is a great base for ground and pound.
    Nobody would argue that wrestling is a better approach for fighting on the ground than bjj

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