Connection

[Wayfaring]

I don't think it is possible to find a martial arts with such a proscribed curriculum as bjj. You are confusing flexibility of expression in sporting arts like bjj (e.g. type of guard, top game vs bottom game, speed player vs pressure) with flexibility in thinking. You will not find flexibility in thinking in bjj beyond a few whackos like Telles. Once the fundamental principles of bjj are broken it no longer works as bjj. Same goes for wing chun.

Depends on the BJJ school. Some are more proscriptive than others. Regarding flexibility you are confused. Many people have advanced the BJJ game to where it is today which is far beyond the levels of competition you saw in the 1990s. Eduardo Telles is one of those - not a "whacko", but TT (Eduardo Telles & Terere) were one of the top competition teams in Brazil for many years. Telles innovative work is the turtle position - legit stuff form there. There are many others like him though - Delariva, MG, Mendes bros, Robson Moura, Eddie Bravo. All the Sambo footlocks get absorbed and integrated. Wrestling gets absorbed, integrated, taught. All the advancements are because people are able to test it in a competitive environment to see what works.

Nobody would argue that wrestling is a better approach for fighting on the ground than bjj

You are clueless. Most BJJ schools teach wrestling as the standup portion of nogi grappling, and judo as the standup portion of gi grappling. But it is entertaining listening to you go on about BJJ, which you know even less about than WCK.

[guy b.]

Depends on the BJJ school. Some are more proscriptive than others. Regarding flexibility you are confused. Many people have advanced the BJJ game to where it is today which is far beyond the levels of competition you saw in the 1990s. Eduardo Telles is one of those - not a "whacko", but TT (Eduardo Telles & Terere) were one of the top competition teams in Brazil for many years. Telles innovative work is the turtle position - legit stuff form there. There are many others like him though - Delariva, MG, Mendes bros, Robson Moura, Eddie Bravo. All the Sambo footlocks get absorbed and integrated. Wrestling gets absorbed, integrated, taught. All the advancements are because people are able to test it in a competitive environment to see what works.

Bjj is a principle based martial art, as all good ones are. Delariva etc do not break the priciples of bjj. Telles does which is why his changes are devolution rather than evolution; they change the way bjj works for the worse.

You are clueless. Most BJJ schools teach wrestling as the standup portion of nogi grappling, and judo as the standup portion of gi grappling. But it is entertaining listening to you go on about BJJ, which you know even less about than WCK.

Clueless? Lol I could say the same for you big guy. I think you read too many forums.

[guy b.]

You are clueless. Most BJJ schools teach wrestling as the standup portion of nogi grappling, and judo as the standup portion of gi grappling. But it is entertaining listening to you go on about BJJ, which you know even less about than WCK.

"Nobody would argue that wrestling is a better approach for fighting on the ground than bjj "

[Wayfaring]

Bjj is a principle based martial art, as all good ones are. Delariva etc do not break the priciples of bjj. Telles does which is why his changes are devolution rather than evolution; they change the way bjj works for the worse.

What principles does Telles break?

[guy b.]

What principles does Telles break?

If you dont know then you don't know bjj very well. These principles are constantly reinforced and even policed via the ruleset

[chaotic2k]

Bjj guys have evolved. They use ideas from judo and wrestling etc.. Its because its a martial art that is developed from NHB fights. Wrestling is awsome dont get me wrong. But Real BJJ is forward moving and current. It has a head start.

[Wayfaring]

If you dont know then you don't know bjj very well. These principles are constantly reinforced and even policed via the ruleset

In other words you are talking out your @$$ and have no clue about what supposed principles Telles breaks. I use his guard all the time and have been taught details of his system by BJJ black belts.

But by all means please enlighten me where I'm going wrong with respect to Telles and BJJ principles.

[YouKnowWho]

Alot of wing chun i see have no stopping power ...

I will category

- WC, parying mantis, ... use the "machine gun" approach.
- Baji, Chen Taiji, XYLH, ... use the "grenade" approach.
- longfist, CLF, ... use the "riffle" approach.

[Vajramusti]

I will category

- WC, parying mantis, ... use the "machine gun" approach.
- Baji, Chen Taiji, XYLH, ... use the "grenade" approach.
- longfist, CLF, ... use the "riffle" approach.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over generalizations at least in the case of wing chun.
With the right training and purpose and when needed- wing chun
can be a machine gun, a rifle or a grenade.

[YouKnowWho]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over generalizations at least in the case of wing chun.
With the right training and purpose and when needed- wing chun
can be a machine gun, a rifle or a grenade.

If you ask a

- longfist guy about "grenade" approach, or
- Baji guy about "machine gun" approach,

he will "honestly" answer that his system doesn't have such training.

If you watch CXW's and Adam Hsu's clips, it takes both of them about 1 second to generate "grenade" type of power for each punch.

http://www.myspace.com/video/chris/c...hniques/330713

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlq...an-vol-1_sport

The "grenade" approach will require to borrow force from the ground and compress your body to the maximum before releasing. This kind of power generation just won't be suitable for "machine gun" approach.

We all like to find a wife who is

- beautiful,
- rich, and
- good in bed.

In reality, that perfect girl doesn't exist. If you can have 3 wifes, one is beautiful, one is rich, and one is good in bed, you will have no regret in your life.

[GlennR]

No, arguing that your approach to wing chun is flawed or mistaken is not equivalent to arguing that you are not doing wing chun at all.

Well make your mind up, the next post you comment "Once the fundamental principles of bjj are broken it no longer works as bjj. Same goes for wing chun. "

Youre basically saying that if you break the rules, youre not doing it, which leads to.......... if you arent doing it my way you arent doing it.

There are all kinds of crappy wing chun around. The majority of wing chun is very poor in fact, but there is lots of it around.

What do you base this statement on?

[guy b.]

In other words you are talking out your @$$ and have no clue about what supposed principles Telles breaks. I use his guard all the time and have been taught details of his system by BJJ black belts.

But by all means please enlighten me where I'm going wrong with respect to Telles and BJJ principles.

I feel sorry for you being so ignorant of a yet another system.

Think about the rules regarding sweeps and apply to Telles "guard". The competition rules police the principles of bjj.

[wingchunIan]

I don't think it is possible to find a martial arts with such a proscribed curriculum as bjj. You are confusing flexibility of expression in sporting arts like bjj (e.g. type of guard, top game vs bottom game, speed player vs pressure) with flexibility in thinking. You will not find flexibility in thinking in bjj beyond a few whackos like Telles. Once the fundamental principles of bjj are broken it no longer works as bjj. Same goes for wing chun.



Nobody would argue that wrestling is a better approach for fighting on the ground than bjj

Magahales would disagree with you and he was a pretty successful.

[guy b.]

Well make your mind up, the next post you comment "Once the fundamental principles of bjj are broken it no longer works as bjj. Same goes for wing chun. "

Youre basically saying that if you break the rules, youre not doing it, which leads to.......... if you arent doing it my way you arent doing it.

I don't think anyone would argue that Telles isn't part of bjj. But he breaks the principles of the original art all of the time. He is contributing to the devolution of bjj by doing this. Same goes for wing chun.

What do you base this statement on?

Experience of different wing chun teachers and curricula.

[guy b.]

Magahales would disagree with you and he was a pretty successful.

Apply simple statistics and common sense. What conclusion do you reach?