Geometric Mandalas; Bloody WSL Again!

[Paddington]

For a while now I have been watching and following sifu Louison's youtube videos and from an early stage, I noted with interest the geometric mandalas on the walls of his training studio.

The mandala in question looks like this.

I actually sent sifu Louison and one of his students a request for info on this mandala and although perhaps not just down to me asking, they did provide a tease of an explanation in their latest and last video in their 'broadcast' series.

In short the diagram contains the 'paths' of each Wing Chun form. So what has WSL got to do with it?

Well, if you watch the video of WSL available here and fast forward to approximately 8mins16secs, you can begin to understand how to read the above mandala. I reproduce below, in very rushed and hurried manner, the diagram WSL is constructing.

I do recommend people watch just before the part I cite too, as WSL tells us what he is referring to and representing on that diagram. Needless to say, in the diagram above C is a human body/center, E the elbow joint and H/W the hand/wrist (from what I can tell). When Hendrik and others talk about 'bows', it is these paths that can be mapped as geometric mandalas.

As shown below you can overlay WSL's diagram quite easily with the more complex geometric mandala. I am not saying that this is the correct place to overlay or that the mandala has to be viewed from this 'top down' perspective.

So, I am going to have much fun deconstructing this geometric mandala further. When you start labeling the points where lines intersect (bows and bridging points), well, the chess analogy becomes more apparent i.e. consider how chess fans talk about chess and the abbreviations they use.

I say 'bloody WSL again!' because I was not expecting to find some of the answers I was seeking with him! That said, knowing which of WSL's students sifu Louison has trained with, I should have looked at WSL in more depth at a sooner stage!

I just want to say thanks to SKM in particular as I have found his thoughts and pointers regarding the history of the square, triangle and circle in martial arts philosophy, very helpful as I did the mandala that he sent me recently. I also thank sifu Louison and the sifu I rolled with last week for helping me to clarify some of my thoughts here.

Some of this might be old news to a few of you but I post it up anyway as it is new to me and may be new and of use, to others here too. Either way I am really interested to read people's thoughts on these themes, so let me know what you think.

[Paddington]

No problem, I am glad to be of help!

As for myself I am busy mapping on the forms, at least as I know them, and putting on highlights for each movement.

I am having to take the long approach by generating multiple sets based upon the different assumptions one can make about the diagram. Hopefully with time I will hit the 'right' perspectives and interpretations!

[Paddington]

[...] The less obvious and most interesting part about this diagram will hopefully be discussed in adult-like fashion on this forum.

Footwork is there too I think. Also you can view it from a different plane and include a z-axis. Anyway, many hours of work here me thinks.

EDIT: They are all too busy arguing in the 'clips threads'! On a more serious note it would be interesting to get their opinions of these themes.

[guy b.]

Footwork is there too I think. Also you can view it from a different plane and include a z-axis. Anyway, many hours of work here me thinks.

EDIT: They are all too busy arguing in the 'clips threads'! On a more serious note it would be interesting to get their opinions of these themes.

What does a diagram add to understanding over doing, feeling and internalising?

[Paddington]

What does a diagram add to understanding over doing, feeling and internalising?

(my emphasis)

Bless you!

What do you think guy_b?

[guy b.]

(my emphasis)

Bless you!

What do you think guy_b?

I think it adds less than nothing personally. Probably detrimental.

[Paddington]

I think it adds less than nothing personally. Probably detrimental.

Thanks for sharing your thought.

[guy b.]

Thanks for sharing your thought.

What do you think it adds? I can't see any advantage to looking at diagrams compared to more regular types of training. The possible structural insights they contain are not even that clear and must be fathomed out. They are also open to potential misinterpretation. Much simpler just to be shown.

[Paddington]

What do you think it adds? I can't see any advantage to looking at diagrams compared to more regular types of training. The possible structural insights they contain are not even that clear and must be fathomed out. They are also open to potential misinterpretation. Much simpler just to be shown.

Personally I find diagrams such as this and the analytic process behind them useful. I quite enjoy working things out for mysef and I don't mind making errors and misinterpretations.

I have always found going through such a learning and puzzle solving process, through which one makes errors, helps (me at least) better embed the ideas when shown the 'correct paths'. But anyway, who is to say that I won't find them myself?

[guy b.]

Personally I find diagrams such as this and the analytic process behind them useful. I quite enjoy working things out for mysef and I don't mind making errors and misinterpretations.

I have always found going through such a learning and puzzle solving process, through which one makes errors, helps (me at least) better embed the ideas when shown the 'correct paths'. But anyway, who is to say that I won't find them myself?

You won't know if you found them yourself if all you have is a mandala. You will need someone to tell or show you, even if you are on the right track. For this reason I don't see the point. It doesn't add anything and risks losing a lot. You might as well do sudoku if you want mental stimulation.

[Paddington]

You won't know if you found them yourself if all you have is a mandala. You will need someone to tell or show you, even if you are on the right track. For this reason I don't see the point. It doesn't add anything and risks losing a lot. You might as well do sudoku if you want mental stimulation.

You are entitled to your opinion! If you don't want to look at the shapes and the video and the other sources I allude to, fine by me!

I would, however, politely ask you not to continue posting in this thread, if you have no interest in discussing the themes I raise beyond stating that they are pointless and not worth the time to understand.

Cheers!

[Hendrik]

Great job done!

Continous on the great job!

[Paddington]

Great job done!

Continous on the great job!

I forgot to thank you too for your input regarding bows in the opening post! Thanks!

[Hendrik]

I forgot to thank you too for your input regarding bows in the opening post! Thanks!

No problem. Don't thank me, thank the wck ancestors.

[guy b.]

And you reckon all the closed thinking is in BJJ, huh?

This is all you took from my posts. Seriously?

Bjj is certainly a principle based MA. This is what makes it good.