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Thread: You don't teach fighting

  1. #1
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    You don't teach fighting

    If you teach TCMA but you don't teach fighting, what does that mean?

    Without fighting,

    - power,
    - speed,
    - timing,
    - opportunity,
    - angle,

    won't be important. What do we have left in TCMA besides balance? Your thought?
    http://johnswang.com

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    Less opinion -> less argument
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If you teach TCMA but you don't teach fighting, what does that mean?

    Without fighting,

    - power,
    - speed,
    - timing,
    - opportunity,
    - angle,

    won't be important. What do we have left in TCMA besides balance? Your thought?
    It's about what is deemed important. For some, discipline is more important. For others, it is about helping kids build confidence or physical fitness.

    The high and mighty approach that someone knows how to apply TCMA in this day and age has passed. If you want to teach fighting, by all means, it is your school. But don't condemn those who, despite not teaching fighting, may be helping kids develop in different ways.

    Not everybody wants to have rooftop duels. I'd even argue that if you do want that, you are basically LARPing and not even realizing it.
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

  3. #3
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    You can apply Taiji "double pulling" and move your hands from your left to your right in the following ways.

    Both hands move:

    1. horizontally with left palm face up and right palm face down.
    2. horizontally with left palm face down and right palm face up.
    3. horizontally with both palms face up.
    4. horizontally with both palms face down.
    5. vertically with left palm face up and right palm face down.
    6. vertically with left palm face down and right palm face up.
    7. vertically with both palms face up.
    8. vertically with both palms face down.

    Without considering fighting, all 8 methods can achieve, health, discipline, confidence, fitness. When you consider fighting, there is one one way which is correct.

    When fighting is not taught, the guideline is not followed. People may do Taiji "double pulling" in any way they want in the future generation. A "TCMA for health" teach will teach a group of "TCMA for health" students. They will teach more "TCMA for health" students. The fighting of TCMA will soon be lost forever.

    I met a girl who added a "lotus flower hands rotation" into her Taiji form. I asked her why and she said that just looked pretty. When she did Taiji "twin peaks to the ears", she bent down her front leg as monkey stance. She is only 5 feet tall, when she bent down her front leg, her double hook punches may only be able to hit the head of a 5 years old. We may see more and more of those if we don't teach "fighting".
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-19-2013 at 01:03 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    The high and mighty approach that someone knows how to apply TCMA in this day and age has passed.

    You guys make me appreciate my school more and more, every day.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A

    I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronWeasel View Post
    You guys make me appreciate my school more and more, every day.
    In what way?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-19-2013 at 01:54 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  6. #6
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    There are styles through MA that will always be associated with health and harmony, also distinctions within styles where you can expect all- ready combat content. Back in the old days of China there were only portions of the population that gravitated towards learning a fighting art. Probably why most Countries now do not draft people into active ground military forces. But, many people who do not voluntarily join the military or police forces are interested in some aspect of a MA style for various purposes. I think a style that becomes "popular" will have more non-combatant interest/appeal. Taiji is # 1 . Combatant popularity is probably shared between Karate/TaeKwonDo.

  7. #7
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    There was a video link posted in a thread not long ago that showed a monk in front of a temple/school demonstrating a form set. The inset lay of the cut slabs was set in a particular pattern that was peculiar to the eye, unconventional. I know that this pattern represents the grounding/footwork of the school style. Geometric concepts are incorporated into calligraphy.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    In what way?
    I was using Drake's remark to illustrate a general perception of practitioners that post on this forum.

    I wasn't referring Master Wang, whose posts are always informatve.

    It's just when people literally give up trying to apply martial arts, because they were taught poorly, or their techniques are unrealistic, or there is no emphasis on effective material.

    I appreciate that our material and instruction has been proven effective time and time again. It reaffirms that I am not wasting my time with theoretical applications or 'made-up' material.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A

    I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronWeasel View Post
    I was using Drake's remark to illustrate a general perception of practitioners that post on this forum.

    I wasn't referring Master Wang, whose posts are always informatve.

    It's just when people literally give up trying to apply martial arts, because they were taught poorly, or their techniques are unrealistic, or there is no emphasis on effective material.

    I appreciate that our material and instruction has been proven effective time and time again. It reaffirms that I am not wasting my time with theoretical applications or 'made-up' material.
    That wasn't what I was saying. But you did prove my point, probably in a way you wouldn't be fond of.
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    That wasn't what I was saying. But you did prove my point, probably in a way you wouldn't be fond of.


    Well, I'm not sure where you're going with that, but I meant to quote your remark out of context of the rest of your post.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A

    I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronWeasel View Post
    Well, I'm not sure where you're going with that, but I meant to quote your remark out of context of the rest of your post.
    I don't think I understand what I think you understood when you said you understood what I was saying out of context...
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    I don't think I understand what I think you understood when you said you understood what I was saying out of context...


    I have mixed feelings about ambiguity.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A

    I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If you teach TCMA but you don't teach fighting, what does that mean?

    Without fighting,

    - power,
    - speed,
    - timing,
    - opportunity,
    - angle,

    won't be important. What do we have left in TCMA besides balance? Your thought?
    Learning how to take care of yourself is what brings most people into MA. But that changes the more you learn, and your reasons for being there change., if they don't change maybe your not learning , or don't what to learn.

  14. #14
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    This is a good topic to discuss, because there is such difficulty in pinning down the right answer...

    fun fun fun...
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    This is a good topic to discuss, because there is such difficulty in pinning down the right answer...

    fun fun fun...
    True enough. It's tough to pin down the "why do you do kung fu?" question.

    IMO
    TCMA doesn't really hold in a modern paradigm because: There are more efficient means to learn practical self defense, it isn't the best practice if you're just into health, it absolutely will not work in modern full contact combat sports and the aspects that are argued to work are best learned from the combat sport of san shou, and it's debatable as to whether it will work at all on the street because of too many years of compliant training and one step applications vs actual hard sparring using TCMA techniques. (and again the techniques that are argued to work are better learned and practiced in other styles).

    So the question is...
    Why is it that I still practice TCMA and why do I still enjoy it so much?

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