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Thread: I don't argue

  1. #1
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    I don't argue

    Quite often when A expressed an opinion, B disagreed, if A

    - respond to it, A will be trapped into a long argument.
    - didn't respond to it, B will be offended.

    Allow me to borrow Miqi's statement here:

    "I don't argue, I just tell you, and you listen or not. All the best."

    I find this may be the best way for online discussion. You put up your opinion and I put up mine. You don't expect me to agree with you. I don't expect you to agree with me either.

    - You "tell" me how you feel. It's up to me to listen to you or not.
    - I "tell" you how I feel. It's up to you to listen to me or not.

    Please notice that the word "tell" is very important key word for this thread.

    I have always loved to have a discussion environment like this. Sometime we my just be too cautious to choose our words inorder not to offend others. When we do that, we restrice ourselves to open our heart completely. It just takes away the fun of online discussion. I have been in another "internal" forum for a long time. Oneday I just realized that no matter how careful that I might choose my words, someone was always offended by my opinion. I just decide to leave that environment.

    For example, whenever I have seen the words "internal" or "push", I just have to say something. 99% of the time, my opinion will offend someone. I can always have 2 options. To say whatever I want to say, or to say whatever people want to hear. If I can't be honest to myself, I may not respect myself enough.

    What's your thought on this?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-21-2013 at 02:13 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  2. #2
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    I stopped trying to "convert" people ages ago.
    Not worth it because people have already made up their minds.
    Like you, I express my view and I may expand on it but beyond that, not much.
    I like to clear up misconceptions about things I know to be wrong and I MAY get into about that, but beyond what I KNOW, I don't bother that much.
    After 35 years of MA, there isn't much that I haven't seen or heard so...
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  3. #3
    That pic really derails a thread...

    Anyway - years ago a sociology instructor said pretty much the same thing, and I'll paraphrase.

    "I'll tell you what I think, and you tell me what you think, and we'll move on from there."

  4. #4
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    In the land of online forums, you come to read and learn from others and then you reject others still.

    No one has ever been convinced of anything in an online argument.
    So, arm yourselves with feces and get to throwing a bigger pile.
    That's all we're doing anyway.

    It's interesting how we think we have time, or great and deep meaning in our lives etc. We really don't and we'd all be happier if we knew that, but it's just my opinion. The only value any of us has is what we can do for someone else.
    What we do for ourselves is in preparation of service to others. In my view, if we don't do that and only work for ourselves, then we will be loathed or forgotten quickly in our lives an after our deaths.

    People can be at a variance and that has a lot to do with the variable moods and ass hole states we can put ourselves into. We all do it and to deny it is to lie. lol. Oh sure, we can work on doing less of it, or veiling it, but hey, the bottom line is this, without you and your perception, as far as you and your perception are concerned, this world doesn't even exist. For you.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  5. #5
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    IMO, it's not worthy for B to continue the following discussion:

    A: What should I ...?
    B: You may try ...
    C: What make you think that you are qualified to give A your opinion? Show me your fighting record, put up your cage fight clip, who have you killed lately? ...
    B: ...

    A: "Internal" is ...
    B: IMO, "internal" is ...
    A: You have no idea what "internal" is. You will need to find a good "internal" instructor ...
    B: ...

    If B continues that discussion, the argument will start. It's amazing how quickly a discussion can turn into "you vs. I" instead of "opinion A vs. opinion B".

    The problem is if B does not continue after that, others may think that B does not stand on his ground and willing to fight back. Sometime it can be a lose-lose situation no matter which way you may take.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-21-2013 at 04:08 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  6. #6
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    !OUCH!

    that hurt.
    "Look, I'm only doing me job. I have to show you how to defend yourself against fresh fruit."

    For it breeds great perfection, if the practise be harder then the use. Sir Francis Bacon

    the world has a surplus of self centered sh1twh0res, so anyone who extends compassion to a stranger with sincerity is alright in my book. also people who fondle road kill. those guys is ok too. GunnedDownAtrocity

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    For example, whenever I have seen the words "internal" or "push", I just have to say something. 99% of the time, my opinion will offend someone. I can always have 2 options. To say whatever I want to say, or to say whatever people want to hear. If I can't be honest to myself, I may not respect myself enough.

    What's your thought on this?
    Say what you mean.

    Mean what you say.

    Post to inform.

    Give away some useful info here and there.

    Agree or disagree.

    It all depends on context or conditions.


    In short,

    there are no perfect posts or posts that we may not argue about.

    That is.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Quite often when A expressed an opinion, B disagreed, if A

    - respond to it, A will be trapped into a long argument.
    - didn't respond to it, B will be offended.

    Allow me to borrow Miqi's statement here:

    "I don't argue, I just tell you, and you listen or not. All the best."

    I find this may be the best way for online discussion. You put up your opinion and I put up mine. You don't expect me to agree with you. I don't expect you to agree with me either.

    - You "tell" me how you feel. It's up to me to listen to you or not.
    - I "tell" you how I feel. It's up to you to listen to me or not.

    Please notice that the word "tell" is very important key word for this thread.

    I have always loved to have a discussion environment like this. Sometime we my just be too cautious to choose our words inorder not to offend others. When we do that, we restrice ourselves to open our heart completely. It just takes away the fun of online discussion. I have been in another "internal" forum for a long time. Oneday I just realized that no matter how careful that I might choose my words, someone was always offended by my opinion. I just decide to leave that environment.

    For example, whenever I have seen the words "internal" or "push", I just have to say something. 99% of the time, my opinion will offend someone. I can always have 2 options. To say whatever I want to say, or to say whatever people want to hear. If I can't be honest to myself, I may not respect myself enough.

    What's your thought on this?
    I wasn't going to respond, but your post was offensive.

  10. #10
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    I often think – “I really understand the real yiquan. People could really learn a lot about the real yiquan by listening to me. There again, these hoaxers also really think they understand the real yiquan. And they also think that people could learn a lot about the real yiquan by listening to them. So how do I know it’s not me that’s the hoaxer?”


    But then I think, don't be stupid - I understand the real yiquan. Listen to me, improve your understanding. Listen to them, become like them.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    I wasn't going to respond, but your post was offensive.
    Offensive? In what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miqi View Post
    Listen to me, ... Listen to them, ...
    "Agree" may be a better word than "listen". I do think we need some confidence in online discussion. When some MMA guy said that TCMA sucks, we all hang ourselves at home, that will be very sad.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-22-2013 at 04:36 AM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  12. #12
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    I think it depends on your purpose in being on here.

    If you want to just present your opinions, you can.

    If you want to share, discuss, and aren't afraid of putting ideas through the "furnace" of others criticism/counterpoints, you can do that.

    If you are looking to understand the western TCMA public community mindset for some reason - you can do that too

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Offensive? In what way?
    You're trying to trap me into a long arguement, aren't you?

  14. #14
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    Some definitions may be helpful here.

    1. sharing - you express your opinion. You may not care about others opinions because you know that no matter what they may say, it won't change your mind..

    2. discussion - Someone expresses his opinion, you ask question in order to understand his opinion better. You do care about others opinion because you may change your mind.

    3. debating - You try to change others mind.

    4. personal attack - It's about the person and not about the subject.

    I'll try very hard not to get into 3 or 4. Once I received a PM that concerned a certain discussion. I told him that at this point of my life, I'm tired of argument. For some unknown reason, he replied back with an ugly note as if something I just said offend him. Even today, I still don't understand "I'm tire of argument" can offend anybody.

    When you are tired of "debating", it doesn't mean that you are also tired of "sharing (benefit to others)" and "discussion (benefit to yourself)".

    "I don't argue" means "I'm tired of argument". Which also mean "I'll try very hard not to get into the negative side of discussion - to prevent a problem from happening".
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-22-2013 at 01:49 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  15. #15
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    In another forum, I started a thread, "combat speed training". One guy expressed his opinion that he likes "slow speed training". I knew that no matter what I might say, he won't agree with me any way. I didn't bother to respond to his posts. At the end of many pages of discussion, that person suddenly put up a post, "I have tried to tell you that speed training is wrong. Why did you ignore my posts?" When I tried to avoid trouble but trouble still knock on my door, I truly don't know what to do after that.

    The funny thing is after I left that forum, that person left that forum soon after me. As if the main purpose of his existence was to prove me to be wrong.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-22-2013 at 02:06 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

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