What happens to Wing Chun when you make it competitive?

[LoneTiger108]

Yes, sparring and fighting are two different things. However I explained why sparring can be practice fighting. It works that way if you do in sparring what you will do in fighting. This is the whole premise behind sport fight training and why sport fighters get so good.

Sorry I think we are on different pages...

So your principle is to gouge the eyes and kick the knee? What do you do if accosted by some drunk? Are you going to poke out his eyes or try to break his leg?

See here is the problem... You are not reading and I specifically put important words in CAPS!! I use principles and put forward 2 basic principle led techniques and now you want to change it around and have me fighting a drunk lol!!

Principle 1 - Strike opponents weak spot
Tech 1 - Gouge eyes

Principle 2 - Strike opponents closest target with longest weapon
Tech 2 - Kick front knee with straight stomp

Boxers have a saying that everyone has a plan until they get hit. When this happens things get messy. That is simply how it works.

Wasn't that Tysons saying? He was an exceptional striker so props to him but let me offer you a Wing Chun saying that is similar... Use defence as attack! So take off the boxers glove and let him continue to try and jab you in the face while you tuck in your vchin and offer him the top of your skull. This is fighting not sparring and this is what Wing Chun is all about (apparently!)

[tc101]

Sorry I think we are on different pages...

Yes I think we are.

See here is the problem... You are not reading and I specifically put important words in CAPS!! I use principles and put forward 2 basic principle led techniques and now you want to change it around and have me fighting a drunk lol!!

Principle 1 - Strike opponents weak spot
Tech 1 - Gouge eyes

Principle 2 - Strike opponents closest target with longest weapon
Tech 2 - Kick front knee with straight stomp

I did understand what you wrote caps and all. I used the example of dealing with the drunk to show that if you stuck to your principles which includes trying to poke eyes or stomp knees that you will have painted yourself into a corner. Do you deal with a drunk by poking his eyes out? You need to have greater flexibility in using your skills to deal with the real world or even a sparring partner.

As I learned it wing chun has a technical repertoire and also strategies, tactics and concepts or principles to help us apply those techniques in fighting situations. Those strategies and tactics and concepts don't require or demand we do anything they are guidelines. Those guidelines give us wide flexibility in applying the tools and they absolutely need to since not every scrape we might get into is to the death lol.

Wasn't that Tysons saying? He was an exceptional striker so props to him but let me offer you a Wing Chun saying that is similar... Use defence as attack! So take off the boxers glove and let him continue to try and jab you in the face while you tuck in your vchin and offer him the top of your skull. This is fighting not sparring and this is what Wing Chun is all about (apparently!)

That saying is an old one and Tyson among others have repeated it. The point is that fighting is messy and requires flexibility and adaptability not rigid adherence to some concepts.

A boxer is not going to jab your forehead. All boxers automatically tuck their chins anyway. This is a good illustration of one of the reasons sparring is a necessity if you want to learn how to really use your wing chun skills. Sparring would prove to you that this idea is a very bad one and what the consequences would be for doing it. Learning what not to do is equally important as knowing what to do.

[LoneTiger108]

I did understand what you wrote caps and all. I used the example of dealing with the drunk to show that if you stuck to your principles which includes trying to poke eyes or stomp knees that you will have painted yourself into a corner. Do you deal with a drunk by poking his eyes out? You need to have greater flexibility in using your skills to deal with the real world or even a sparring partner.

Wah... I can't recall anywhere saying that these techs are the be all and end all, I just used them as examples on where the rules in compettion fail to serve a good Wing Chun student because these are some of the most common things taught relating to some of our principles.

As I learned it wing chun has a technical repertoire and also strategies, tactics and concepts or principles to help us apply those techniques in fighting situations.

If you have been taught a Sansau based method of Wing Chun that is your experience. This technical repertoire you are talking about is (I will presume) directly connected to your teachers experience too. My point is and will always be that Wing Chun is principle led, not technique led.

This is also why I liked an earlier post that mentioned students doing themselves a disservice by trying to spar or enter competitions too early in their training. Out of interest, and for the sake of clarifying your views here, how long have you trained Wing Chun? Under what Sifu/Organisation?

A boxer is not going to jab your forehead. All boxers automatically tuck their chins anyway. This is a good illustration of one of the reasons sparring is a necessity if you want to learn how to really use your wing chun skills.

Again, you are missing my point. But nevermind I can't be repeating myself again...