Clip

[JPinAZ]

You see... trolls are anonymous and put words into peoples mouths and rewrite entire posts to spew whatever it is that takes their fancy that day... and that's is so more you than me dude lol!

I'm far from anonymous - I train and teach HFY in AZ and my initials are JP, hense my username. I'm easy to find. Heck, you had no problem finding me and then trying to use someone else's website to try and cut down what I do on another thread like a good little stalker. Funny, once I pointed this out, you stopped posting on that thread

Oh I agree with you there.

IF what you want to do is train like that it's all fine. BUT I like the fact that he utilizes his Wing Chun training and spars with varied purposes, to develop 'different skills' slowly and allow his guys to train in a safe and (what looks like) enjoyable environment. Competitive? I see more people working together towards a goal rather than the win win mentality which is very cool IMHO and how I would like to see our system develop.

Not taking anything away from Sean's clip or how his group trainings, but what I see in the clip is very light contact sparing at most. I'm guessing it's part of a progressive sparring/training platform and doesn't stop with just what's in the clip. (hopefuly he can verify this)

But any time you realisticly test your skills with more live energy harder contact sparring, it is going to be somewhat competitive - and should be - if you're trying to push someone to their limits and find places for improvements. Otherwise it's either light contact cooperative drilling (light sparring), fixed drills - both of which are necessary - or you're just plain LARPing. BTW, you can still be working together to build each other's skills and toward the same goal in a competitve environment and without points. It's really shocking you can't see this simple fact.

You know I am seeing a trend here, and for some reason it is based on me not agreeing with 'fighting' fellow practitioners or others with my art, yet I have never said I do not like to spar or train to fight. Fighting for me though is 'real' so if you don't know how dirty Wing Chun actually is you will not understand how we fight. I'm a pretty small guy too so the system resonates with me personally on many levels.

I do not like the competition arena, or points based Chisau I generally see (including the clips) because I have never heard from anyone who has done this in the past say anything positive that came out from it all. It divides the Wing Chun family and shows pretty low level skill all the time so it fuels other MAs argument that we are all cr4p too.

And just in case nobody understands me... Wing Chun specializes in, what we call today, sparring!! It was just never called that before the 1950s and the introduction of Sansau/Sanda and Wushu Dulian.

Fighting in them days was a 'fight to the death'! And believe me, from what I can gather from my own research and many others, is that Wing Chun held it's own in them days because ultimately that is what Martial Arts was about back then.

As someone once told me, "Give any BJJ man, boxer or kickboxer a pole or blade and watch me whoop their a$$!!"

You say you "never said I do not like to spar or train to fight."
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, so can you give some examples of how you train to fight in a normal class? Is it more than fixed drills and chi sau?
Also, so I understand you, what is the difference between sparring vs 'fighting'?
And, what do you consider 'training to fight' as you put it?
--------------------------------
What they did in the old days really means nothing now. What matters is what WE do now as part of OUR traingn. If someone isn't testing thier art as part of their training (and that doesn't mean only thru comps and tourneys), yet still totes on about what the ancestors did, it could be viewed as LARPing, living tin the past or plain old nutriding.

And IMO, WC specializes in fighting, not sparring. And IMO, while we all do WC, we're not all one big family. This forum is solid proof of that.

[Sean66]

Not taking anything away from Sean's clip or how his group trainings, but what I see in the clip is very light contact sparing at most. I'm guessing it's part of a progressive sparring/training platform and doesn't stop with just what's in the clip. (hopefuly he can verify this)

Well, what's shown in the clip is more than just "very light". Even at the levels shown in the clip there are split lips and bloody noses on a regular basis. But, yes, we do go at it harder once a week and it does become more competitive at this level. Of course, the harder the sparring, the sloppier the technique. Hence the importance of the whole progression as a feedback loop.

[LoneTiger108]

Wah! I'm beginning to see why this forum is losing direction...

I'm far from anonymous - I train and teach HFY in AZ and my initials are JP, hense my username. I'm easy to find. Heck, you had no problem finding me and then trying to use someone else's website to try and cut down what I do on another thread like a good little stalker. Funny, once I pointed this out, you stopped posting on that thread

What's funny is that I stopped posting on that thread coz I was bored of repeating myself. But don't worry, I won't do that here.

Weird how you think I'm stalking you just because I wanted to see where you were from and what may have inspired you to become such a MMA jock because from my experience with HFY guys here, they have been less about the fight and more about the culture.

BTW, you can still be working together to build each other's skills and toward the same goal in a competitve environment and without points. It's really shocking you can't see this simple fact.

Competition is for sports junkies my friend and if you can't see that there is no place for it in interactive Wing Chun practise like Chisau (which fme is a TEACHING TOOL) then you're further down the chop suey rabbitt hole than I first thought You say you teach HFY?

You say you "never said I do not like to spar or train to fight."
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, so can you give some examples of how you train to fight in a normal class? Is it more than fixed drills and chi sau?
Also, so I understand you, what is the difference between sparring vs 'fighting'?
And, what do you consider 'training to fight' as you put it?

Yep! You are misunderstanding me. But nice try asking me silly questions... again!

And IMO, WC specializes in fighting, not sparring. And IMO, while we all do WC, we're not all one big family. This forum is solid proof of that.

Further evidence that it may actually be people like you that will continue to divide the 'family' (even though the word these days has no meaning to many). Luckily I don't have such a narrow view about unity, but then I do not judge the entire Wing Chun community by a little old forum online that seems to be a playground for enthusiasts like yourself who may not even have a clue about what Wing Chun is as far as I can tell... I didn't see a 'JP' in any 'official' HFY list either? http://www.hungfayiwingchunpai.com/hungfakwoons.html

Or is this group not connected to you?? If so, HFY has it's own problems which do not need to spread into the wider community...

[GlennR]

Wah! I'm beginning to see why this forum is losing direction...

And what "direction" should it go Spencer?
Perhaps your idea of what it should be?

What's funny is that I stopped posting on that thread coz I was bored of repeating myself. But don't worry, I won't do that here.

We're all bored with you repeating yourself so its unanimous.... great, we all agree on something

Weird how you think I'm stalking you just because I wanted to see where you were from and what may have inspired you to become such a MMA jock because from my experience with HFY guys here, they have been less about the fight and more about the culture.

Mate, are you so insecure about MMA that you have to associate it with 'jock"?
Does that make you feel intellectually superior?

Competition is for sports junkies my friend and if you can't see that there is no place for it in interactive Wing Chun practise like Chisau (which fme is a TEACHING TOOL) then you're further down the chop suey rabbitt hole than I first thought You say you teach HFY?

No, competition is for people who want to compete..... why the junkie label?

Further evidence that it may actually be people like you that will continue to divide the 'family' (even though the word these days has no meaning to many). Luckily I don't have such a narrow view about unity, but then I do not judge the entire Wing Chun community by a little old forum online that seems to be a playground for enthusiasts like yourself who may not even have a clue about what Wing Chun is as far as I can tell... I didn't see a 'JP' in any 'official' HFY list either? http://www.hungfayiwingchunpai.com/hungfakwoons.html

Divide the family? What family?
We have a hobby in common........ thats it

Or is this group not connected to you?? If so, HFY has it's own problems which do not need to spread into the wider community...

Go son, stir that pot!

[wingchunIan]

I didn't see a 'JP' in any 'official' HFY list either? http://www.hungfayiwingchunpai.com/hungfakwoons.html

Or is this group not connected to you?? If so, HFY has it's own problems which do not need to spread into the wider community...

Bit of a silly post Spencer, you should know well enough that even within lineages there are different organisations. It is true of my own lineage, WSL, and your own Lee Shing lineage to cite just a few so why should HFY be any different.

[LoneTiger108]

Bit of a silly post Spencer, you should know well enough that even within lineages there are different organisations. It is true of my own lineage, WSL, and your own Lee Shing lineage to cite just a few so why should HFY be any different.

Silly post?

I see so many of those on here and you want to pull me up for something like this when 'JP' says he is a Teacher of HFY yet there is no evidence to support this?

And for him to old his anti-family view seemed even stranger considering this rhetoric that is on one of the HFY banners:

http://www.hungfakwoon.com/NewStuff.htm

"In all directions, there is one family"

[LoneTiger108]

And what "direction" should it go Spencer?
Perhaps your idea of what it should be?

Is a unified direction too much to ask?

Mate, are you so insecure about MMA that you have to associate it with 'jock"?
Does that make you feel intellectually superior?

Nope. It was my heartfelt attempt at trying to talk a language this dude from AZ might understand... but no worries as it sounds like he has his jock friends on here to protect him lol!

No, competition is for people who want to compete..... why the junkie label?

And tell me why you want to compete? What do you gain from competing with Wing Chun?

Oh wait... try responding on my own thread if you can be bothered.

Divide the family? What family?
We have a hobby in common........ thats it

Okay Hobby Boy...

[LoneTiger108]

What happened to the thread?

It's about the clip of my students that Kevin originally posted, right?

Well, I for one have learned a lot (and continue to learn) from my colleagues and friends in the mma scene. We can learn a lot from them, especially when it comes to modern training methods.

Sorry to draw the attention away from your clip Sean... but I have tried to steer people onto my own thread to discuss all this stuff about competitive Wing Chun etc but they just seem to prefer invading this thread... and we all know I will just continue to ramble on and on when I have the free-time like I have had in the last few days...

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=65959

[JPinAZ]

Silly post?

Blah Bla Blah
http://www.hungfakwoon.com/NewStuff.htm

"In all directions, there is one family"

Jeebus you're a moron. While yes, all WC comes from the same source, and in that regard, I you can say that we are all 'one family', but that's not what that quote is about. And my one family comment was in regards to all the various WC lineages we see today, as well as all the in-fighting you see between them as well as inside the individual branches.

Weird how you think I'm stalking you just because I wanted to see where you were from and what may have inspired you to become such a MMA jock because from my experience with HFY guys here, they have been less about the fight and more about the culture.

Again, just more side-tracking and diversion. While culture plays an important part in HFY lineage, if you think HFY guys aren't concerned about being able to fight, you really are clueless.

But then, what does this have to do with the thread?

Competition is for sports junkies my friend and if you can't see that there is no place for it in interactive Wing Chun practise like Chisau (which fme is a TEACHING TOOL) then you're further down the chop suey rabbitt hole than I first thought You say you teach HFY?

It's sad that is all you see competition as being. But you're welcome to your view, however naive. Once again, I don't advocate chi sau comps and even stated to you I've judged one and will never do it again. Waste of time. But you already know this, so the above is just trolling.

Blag Blah Blagh.... I didn't see a 'JP' in any 'official' HFY list either? http://www.hungfayiwingchunpai.com/hungfakwoons.html

Or is this group not connected to you?? blah blah blah...

Look moron, I just told you in another post that JP were my initials, so why would you be stupid enough to search for a JP? My name's Jonathan, which I've used many times here. Again, nothing to hide. Let it go already

And since you are such a horribly stupid investigator, my 'club' is listed on that page. And, I do include progressive sparing as part of my skill testing methods. It's not an MMA thing, it's a common sense training thing - something you obviously don't have a clue about.

But really, what does ANY of this have to do with Sean's clip? Or sparring, or testing your art? It doesn't. So let it go already, I'm sure you've dragged the thread down enough, so dont' expect any more replies from me unless it's related to the thread.

[JPinAZ]

Bit of a silly post Spencer, you should know well enough that even within lineages there are different organisations. It is true of my own lineage, WSL, and your own Lee Shing lineage to cite just a few so why should HFY be any different.

Silly indeed
Just to be clear, there is only one HFY organisation.

[JPinAZ]

Well, what's shown in the clip is more than just "very light". Even at the levels shown in the clip there are split lips and bloody noses on a regular basis. But, yes, we do go at it harder once a week and it does become more competitive at this level. Of course, the harder the sparring, the sloppier the technique. Hence the importance of the whole progression as a feedback loop.

Thank you for sharing - So who gets the fun job of cleaning up all the blood after classes?

And sorry someone turned this thread into a weird JP witch hunt - I won't give this guy any more energy on this thread..

[k gledhill]

Sean's got a good idea and is working it. The footwork is not linear back and forth like lemmings charging a cliff edge. Bag and pad work are essential for 100% power release to damage. Damage I reserve for those who want to really do me damage. Sparring partners aren't trying to hospitalize you. When I read guys complaining about " light contact " make it more real, real is brain damage, detached retinas, missing teeth, fractures.
Btw this threads derailment is why I usually delete the whole thing. No attempts to edit or moderate as usual.

[JPinAZ]

When I read guys complaining about " light contact " make it more real, real is brain damage, detached retinas, missing teeth, fractures.

Since I am one of the people that mentioned 'light contact' on this thread, it was in no way a complaint - just to be clear. It looks like his guys are working hard and putting in the efforts needed to build good fighting skill and I have no problems with what Sean's doing in regards to his own goals and methods, even if I feel some of it viotaltes what I understand of WC.

[guy b.]

When I read guys complaining about " light contact " make it more real, real is brain damage, detached retinas, missing teeth, fractures.
Btw this threads derailment is why I usually delete the whole thing. No attempts to edit or moderate as usual.

Very true Kev, especially without gloves. These people don't actually train I think.

[Sean66]

Hey JPinAZ,

Just out of curiosity, what violates your understanding of WC?
Don't worry, I won't take it personally and go off on ya, just wanting to get your perspective.