Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 47

Thread: a reason for arguments

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    St.Louis Missouri
    Posts
    2,175
    I remember my sifu's teacher use to have his students challenge other martial schools...it didnt matter if you were chinese, korean, american, or japaneses...if you did wing chun in his kwoon you had to fight...if you won the match against visitors or other schools you would be giving a break from hard conditioning training...if you loss you had do conditioning until your arms locked up.

    Basically people who never touched hands with them will say there wing chun is crap...but at the end of the day those they fought would agree they had real gung fu!!!

    An thats what matters...NOT lineage or some strange history...But who wins the fights...

    An thats how todays present legends became pedigree lineages...by winning fights...not by how traditional their wing chun was!
    The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.

    "Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."

    "Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."

    "Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,781

    something smells fishy

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post
    I remember my sifu's teacher use to have his students challenge other martial schools...it didnt matter if you were chinese, korean, american, or japaneses...if you did wing chun in his kwoon you had to fight...if you won the match against visitors or other schools you would be giving a break from hard conditioning training...if you loss you had do conditioning until your arms locked up.

    Basically people who never touched hands with them will say there wing chun is crap...but at the end of the day those they fought would agree they had real gung fu!!!

    An thats what matters...NOT lineage or some strange history...But who wins the fights...

    An thats how todays present legends became pedigree lineages...by winning fights...not by how traditional their wing chun was!
    IMO, this is a perfect example of issues with WC today.
    Isn't your teacher's teacher Robert McField? From everything that can be found about him, he promotes peace and the word of God, not going out challenging or picking fights with other schools...

    Is this what you mean by the 'fighting' and real gung fu they do?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSkHNxuyWkQ
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,781
    Sorry, missed this

    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    I don't know what you mean by understood wing chun the same way.
    Same undestanding of the core principles and concepts of WCK. And it's pretty safe to assmue the founders of WC were all on the same page at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    If by rules you mean general guidelines I can agree with you. I see wing chun just like boxing bjj and so on as still and always in the developmental phase as you call it.
    By 'rules, I was using it as a loose term again for the concepts/principles of the WCK system.

    I think we disagree here regarding the WCK system being like boxing and BJJ. Yes, I agree that your own personal skill level will always be developing, but the system itself has been 'set' for quite some time, at least in my experience and understanding. And, some of the evolution seen with BJJ, Boxing MMA, etc has been driven partially by rule & equipment changes simply because they are more sport driven styles or arts. Not saying they aren't also good forms of self defense, but MMA's creation was because of sporting events, so it's a bit different than the system of WCK's creation and initial usage yeah?

    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    I do not think Yip Man's art was ever constant or complete but that he was continually tinkering with the art and his curriculum and so forth. I do not think wing chun is a complete art because there is no such thing as a complete art. I learned and my experience so far has confirmed that wing chun has some general guidelines or concepts or principles that can be widely expressed and that is what makes the art adaptive and allows it to be tailored to the individual. We just have a very different view of the art.
    Again, art & curriculum are seperate from WCK system from my POV. I agree that curriculum can change and vary on any number of factors (student's given skill level, time necessary for training, etc). But things like principles shouldn't, and IMO , can't change. How can you change the laws of nature? Things like shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line, or 2 objects can't occupy the same space at the same time are constants yeah?

    Anyway, thanks for the good discussion and I appreciate your POV, even if we might not agree on everything
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 06-05-2013 at 01:01 PM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    St.Louis Missouri
    Posts
    2,175
    YES HE IS A CHRISTIAN TODAY...an feels that WC is should be use for health...he also trying to advocate tai chi and proper nutrition...He is over 50 now...but when he was in his 30's his wing chun was all about the fight...When you been fighting hard for ten to 15 years an get older you do the WC for other reasons not the fight!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    IMO, this is a perfect example of issues with WC today.
    Isn't your teacher's teacher Robert McField? From everything that can be found about him, he promotes peace and the word of God, not going out challenging or picking fights with other schools...

    Is this what you mean by the 'fighting' and real gung fu they do?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSkHNxuyWkQ
    The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.

    "Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."

    "Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."

    "Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post
    Ali i dont know...maybe he is a hater...or maybe he is a fake WC guy who hates wing chun that actually works in a fight!!!
    Is there any evidence beyond biased testimony that your grandteacher's WC "works in a fight?"

    I wasn't there during his 30's, but if what he shows today is representative, I can see where some things might work and some things might not.

    What does this have to do with the thread topic other than being an example of fanboyism?

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,781
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post
    YES HE IS A CHRISTIAN TODAY...an feels that WC is should be use for health...he also trying to advocate tai chi and proper nutrition...He is over 50 now...but when he was in his 30's his wing chun was all about the fight...When you been fighting hard for ten to 15 years an get older you do the WC for other reasons not the fight!!!!
    Sure, he probably got into fights himself back in the day, and it's good that he is looking to advocate good health and well being for his students.

    But, you were talking about him requiring all of his studentsto fight and also to go challenge other schools, regardless of the color of their skin (which has nothing to do with anything) . And, if they lost, you did more training until your arms locked up'.
    But in the clip, he talks about finding God BEFORE he opened his school in 1997, and that it exactly this reason that lead lead him to open a school in which he promotes peace. So can you see why none of this adds up at all?
    Listen @1:25 http://www.lcmakc.com/videos.htm
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    I think we disagree here regarding the WCK system being like boxing and BJJ. Yes, I agree that your own personal skill level will always be developing, but the system itself has been 'set' for quite some time, at least in my experience and understanding. And, some of the evolution seen with BJJ, Boxing MMA, etc has been driven partially by rule & equipment changes simply because they are more sport driven styles or arts.
    Bjj is possibly the most principle driven martial art in the world

  8. #38
    The reason for arguments here is that most people are not satisfied with their wing chun and so we have this odd Stockholm syndrome thing where the MMA crew stalk around the forum abusing everything to do with wing chun while the wing chun people do not have the confidence to stand up for themselves and so look to belittle each other to make themselves feel better.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Great Lakes State, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,645
    If that were the case, everyone on the WC forum would have their heads up their assets. No truth in what you posted. Funny, though. https://www.google.com/search?q=pict...2F%3B500%3B300
    Last edited by PalmStriker; 06-06-2013 at 07:38 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Great Lakes State, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,645
    The real reason is: If we weren't arguing about kungfu stuff, we wouldn't have much to say at all. Get over it or practice something else. It's a given, part of TCMA.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,714
    WC arguments were well established way before MMA or this forum were conceived.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
    Don't like my posts? Challenge me!

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,714
    A few posts got deleted from this thread.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
    Don't like my posts? Challenge me!

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    A few posts got deleted from this thread.
    why, was there some kind of argument?

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,781
    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    A few posts got deleted from this thread.
    Some of mine included, but you'll get no complaints from me!

    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Bjj is possibly the most principle driven martial art in the world
    Even from my limited understanding I woulnd't disagree, and never intended to say otherwise. But, I'd say it's probalby the second most principle driven art, I'll let you guess at which I would say is the first
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 06-07-2013 at 09:06 AM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    Even from my limited understanding I woulnd't disagree, and never intended to say otherwise. But, I'd say it's probalby the second most principle driven art, I'll let you guess at which I would say is the first
    Actually I think you are correct!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •