What if,

[-N-]

If you can add

- right jab, left cross, right hook, left uppercut combo.

Jiang Hao Quan did that. It was a kind of trademark signature of his.

[YouKnowWho]

same thing in different sequences ...

This can be an interest discussion.

When you try to get your opponent's right leading leg, he pulls that leg back, what will you do next? You can

- inner hook,
- outer hook,
- sweep,
- bite,
- spring,
- twist,
- lift,
- ...

his left leg,.

Will you train all different combos even if the "single leg" is in different sequence (use single leg to set up next move)? If you create your form, will you include all combos or just 1 combo?

[-N-]

It seems like each generation a teacher creates a form, if not several, to add to his system....

Not always the case.

Brendan Lai said he had 25 forms, his teacher had 50, and his teacher's teacher had 100.

In his latter years, Brendan Lai still taught forms, but they were not the main focus of his teaching.

[bawang]

people dont pay money to watch somebody do jab, cross, uppercut.

old shaolin kung fu has drills like 24 jabs 36 hooks. a modern shaolin bald donkey can "play" his qixingquan 1000 times, hes not gonna "find" it.

[YouKnowWho]

the more flashy your form, the more coins people give you.

That was while the "五凤齐飞(Wu Feng Qi Feo) - 5 phoenix fly in the sky" was created. In 3 jumping kicks, you use your hands to hit on your body 5 times as if you carry the drum beating with your body.

[bawang]

That was while the "五凤齐飞(Wu Feng Qi Feo) - 5 phoenix fly in the sky" was created. In 3 jumping kicks, you use your hands to hit on your body 5 times as if you carry the drum beating with your body.

when i trained all these flowery moves, i had no faith in kung fu. when i stopped training them, i believe in kung fu.

[YouKnowWho]

when i trained all these flowery moves, i had no faith in kung fu. when i stopped training them, i believe in kung fu.

If you can still do triple jumping kick "五凤齐飞(Wu Feng Qi Feo) - 5 phoenix fly in the sky" when you are 80 years old, you know the change that you may live through your 90 will be high.

The older you are, ther harder that you can jump. If you jump everyday, your health will be good.

[Lucas]

if you read the records of the grand historian, there are sword dances in there. the trick of it in this case though, is that you have an accomplished warrior proven in battle performing a dance of his battle sword before (insert person to be impressed/entertained).

also, if you read Confucius:

'According to the record in “the School Sayings of Confucius”, Zi Lu, the student of Confucius, 'ever waved the sword and danced before Confucius' that is 2500 years ago and the oldest record of the sword dance.

[RenDaHai]

Even wrathful Achillies was noted as performing an excellent Pyrrhic dance (the ancient greek war dance loved by the spartans).


You have to question the nature of all of our training.

If you put a group of people together and tell them to fight all day, every day, and teach them nothing, how long before they evolve their own Martial Art? Very fast indeed. Even better this way as they do not learn by force but realise themselves, then this knowledge is never lost.

After a short time of training in this manner they think of technique. But if as a child they learned the TaoLu, the forms, even if never being told their application, suddenly they understand them, and discover their meaning. Unconsciously they replicate them. This is the method of teaching by suggestion instead of force.

The good teacher provides the opportunity for the self discovery of knowledge.

[Kellen Bassette]

all forms of entertainment were banned in the ming army except forms. so forms became more complicated in the 1550s, since it became a major form of entertainment.

folk stories also say in the 1700s there was another wave of flowery kung fu, but there is no written history to prove it.

When are you going to write a serious paper and quote all your sources?

You come up with a lot of stuff that we don't see elsewhere on English sites...if you got the pertinent documents arranged cohesively, I think that would be a pretty big service to Kung Fu in the English speaking world.

[Kellen Bassette]

if you read the records of the grand historian, there are sword dances in there. the trick of it in this case though, is that you have an accomplished warrior proven in battle performing a dance of his battle sword before (insert person to be impressed/entertained).

This seems to be a very pervasive Old World tradition. Probably New World as well, if I were to take the time to read up on our indigenous warriors.

My question is, should people who don't go to battle perform the war dance? Would the swordsman be taken seriously had he only practiced his dance and never his craft?

[Kellen Bassette]

The good teacher provides the opportunity for the self discovery of knowledge.

I agree with this. But the student must be put into a situation where self discovery is inevitable.

Think Luke Skywalker in the swamp.

[MightyB]

Forms come from an era of less distractions. We have xBox, a million channels, good movies, restaurants, and internet porn. Plus a million recreational activities to choose and participate in within minutes of where we live.

They didn't have that in the not so way back. I like to think of forms as like a step up challenge dance between martial artists. Part martial, part showing off machismo.

[Kymus]

When are you going to write a serious paper and quote all your sources?

You come up with a lot of stuff that we don't see elsewhere on English sites...if you got the pertinent documents arranged cohesively, I think that would be a pretty big service to Kung Fu in the English speaking world.

1) Bawang has a secret source that he will never tell anyone because his existence is dependant on making kong foo kids cry. Actually, I think Bawang just wants to make everyone cry.. Either out of rage, frustration, or laughter.

2) I've heard that Adam Hsu talks about some of this in his book The Sword Polisher's Record. Something about there originally not being a lot of forms or something? I still need to read the book myself.

[Kymus]

I agree with this. But the student must be put into a situation where self discovery is inevitable.

Think Luke Skywalker in the swamp.

I second this. You can't teach someone all the answers, but you can teach them to the point where they should be able to start figuring things out for themselves. The whole "play with it" concept. There are some people that are too rigid of thinkers to get this, and those people are a different matter entirely.