GM of Hadaka Korosu
I like doing my forms.
They give me something that drills and sparring don't:
Internal perspective.
And no, not internal in that way.
I get lost in my forms, I can focus on the most minor of details, I can make it what I want it to be at any given time.
Forms, IMO, "finish" a MA for me.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
NIII
Kinda reminds me of this...Originally Posted by Kymus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIEJjpVlZu0
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
no! .......so is it possible the origin of forms training may have been more of a ritual than we let on? Could the current popular thinking about this tradition be completely misconstrued?
Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
Bruh we thought you knew better
when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better
(. Y .)
I second this. Personally I like playing the bigger / more expressive forms. They're fun, and all forms require mad skillz if you want to pull them off properly.
The Progressive Boxer
Agreed.
It's the empty cup analogy in a way. There are 3 steps:
- empty cup
- pour tea
- drink tea
A good student is the empty cup, a good teacher is like an unlimited pitcher of tea. If both work well, then the student will know that he needs to drink the tea himself.
The Progressive Boxer
I don't think there's anything wrong with forms. Not until that becomes the prime focus of an art.
I used to go to this real good traditional school. The teacher there had legit lineage and he trained in Taiwan. The forms were good, the school was traditional, on the surface everything looked great.
But there was little focus on the three levels of training resistance and they just did point sparring (I assume because that's what the tournament rules were).
NIII
It's funny... At first(way back) the argument was "doing forms does not a fighter make" and despite initial resistance, we have all pretty much agreed that this statement is true. If you want to be a good fighter, you fight. Simple... But when did this whole 'forms vs. whatever' debate turn into "forms suck and have no use"???
I know that's not what this thread is about, but it made me think of how much the attitude about forms has changed over the last decade or so.
I like forms. I also like dancing and doing gymnastics. While I do believe that being able to do these things gives me an advantage in ANY physical activity, I mean compared to where I myself would be w/o those skills, but never at any point did I delude myself into thinking that this was the epitome of training. I think the biggest issue here is priorities. As priorities change we change our methods. Simple... no?
I don't really care where or why forms came about, I just know they have a place in my life. I enjoy the exercise and the change up from the grind of other training methods. Forms are like my reward for doing drills just like air flares are my reward from doing handstand pushups and windmills.
Man I love that second one...
The Progressive Boxer
Syn, I think it's like this...
Most of us (I hope) know that there's something wrong with TCMA today.
Forms sort of stick out, I guess you can say. They're the whipping boy.
So the reaction a lot of people have is to trash them entirely.
I think the balance is in the middle (not my site, but I think what they're trying to do is real cool). What are forms but a sequence of movements to help you remember techniques? The real problem is either:
- (A) tons of forms
- (B) no time spent practicing these movements in different phases of resistance
- and/or (C) all of the above
The Progressive Boxer
have you seen Planet BBoy?
NIII
Yeah... I also have the vids for BOTY for every year.
Bad the Fukc Ass
forms are a good vehicle for delivery of certain aspects of style specific movement as well. footwork is an example. for instance, in the xingyi i recently started training, the footwork is different than previous styles i have studied over the years in that the feet have a parallel setting with this particular method of xingyi. if left to my own devices my feet will automatically revert to the years of stance work i already have in place. doing the form allows me to build the muscle memory needed through focused concentration to allow the footwork to become a natural method for me.
it gives you a method of being able to practice alone that allows you to look inside yourself and evaluate what you are doing, as well as repetative reinforcement of methods that you are not accustomed to. its the polishing phase imo. the drills and so forth are what teach you to use your techniques so that you can transfer them to a live environment. the form allows you to take these techniques out of context of live environment and 'internalize' the movement for refinement.
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
(. Y .)
Yes and No. There isn't anything wrong with TCMA, that's a bit of an overgeneralization. Some schools are good, some are bad, and there are aspects that don't fit into our perception of martial art. If a school doesn't progress through my paradigm of the three levels, then it doesn't fit my perception, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It's just not for me.
The Progressive Boxer
I can agree with that. It's not TCMA itself, but how it is taught today, I think.
(. Y .)
go to an International Kuoshu Tournament. I believe they still have them. It's been a long while so I don't know what they're like today, but it used to be expected that you do an open hand form, weapon form, and fight full contact. And to much the surprise of the greater online modern kung fu community, you actually do see some "style" in the free fighting.
The Progressive Boxer
Not asking you to scour youtube for me, but if you ever find some good clips, please share them with me. That sounds great!
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