Shaolin Boxing before 1780

[LFJ]

just consider that 50 years ago no one had heard of yip man and only like 50 guys had learned his sets

The sets Wong Fei Hung taught about 100 years ago are so varied now they are no longer recognizable in some forms

I would say there's an obviously different quality to this type of transformation, than with what is seen between the various village styles of Xiaohongquan.

[lkfmdc]

I would say there's an obviously different quality to this type of transformation, than with what is seen between the various village styles of Xiaohongquan.

why do you try to obscure simple ideas with fancy words?

in short, NO, the differences are NOT different, you just WANT them to be different

the entire shaolin thing is absurd when you understand that in 1986 the place was in ruins and there were only 5 or 6 old monks there... the whole thing is a rackett

[LFJ]

why do you try to obscure simple ideas with fancy words?

Which word was fancy? lol

in short, NO, the differences are NOT different, you just WANT them to be different

Do you even know what particular boxing sets we're talking about?

the entire shaolin thing is absurd when you understand that in 1986 the place was in ruins and there were only 5 or 6 old monks there... the whole thing is a rackett

So you are just trolling. My shifu was there and ordained prior to that time with physical evidence that proves it. There were not just "5 or 6 unnamed old monks" there. Troll on.

[RenDaHai]

nderstand that in 1986 the place was in ruins and there were only 5 or 6 old monks there... the whole thing is a rackett

YOur not seriously suggesting Shaolin MA was created after 1986 are you? Cause there is no point trying to argue if you are already that deluded.

[lkfmdc]

YOur not seriously suggesting Shaolin MA was created after 1986 are you? Cause there is no point trying to argue if you are already that deluded.

if you think that all the "monks" that are there now are some unbroken line going back to the mystical past, then you are deluded

If you think "shaolin kung fu" is someone special or different from all the kung fu practiced in the north, you are deluded

If you think those videos are proof of 200 or thousand year old sets, you are deluded

but, then again, most of the shaolin crowd are deluded

[lkfmdc]

My shifu was there and ordained prior to that time with physical evidence that proves it. There were not just "5 or 6 unnamed old monks" there. Troll on.

you are clearly a LIAR... or you just believe lies.... who is your teacher? He was an "ordained shoalin monk" in the temple prior to 1985?? that's rich...

[RenDaHai]

if you think that all the "monks" that are there now are some unbroken line going back to the mystical past, then you are deluded

If you think "shaolin kung fu" is someone special or different from all the kung fu practiced in the north, you are deluded

If you think those videos are proof of 200 or thousand year old sets, you are deluded

but, then again, most of the shaolin crowd are deluded

You have a short memory. We have had this discussion before.

I explained the deeply embedded culture in Song mountian and the many village styles. I went to this specific village as I said above. I have actually learned these forms. I made copies of the old poems written about them.

There is no point in discussion with you. I already did it before, I made my points clear, you simply insulted me. It was not a profitable argument, then you deleted the entire thread.

[LFJ]

He was an "ordained shoalin monk" in the temple prior to 1985??

Yes. Shi Deyang, and 1983/4 between when he entered and underwent full ordination. I've seen his collection of photos. There were others before him. Not hard to believe...

[lkfmdc]

You have a short memory. We have had this discussion before.

I explained the deeply embedded culture in Song mountian and the many village styles. I went to this specific village as I said above. I have actually learned these forms. I made copies of the old poems written about them.

There is no point in discussion with you. I already did it before, I made my points clear, you simply insulted me. It was not a profitable argument, then you deleted the entire thread.

here's a tissue, wipe your nose

here's a brush, take the sand out of your panties

boo hoo, such a gentle soul

[lkfmdc]

Yes. Shi Deyang, and 1983/4 between when he entered and underwent full ordination. I've seen his collection of photos. There were others before him. Not hard to believe...

very hard to believe since I know the history of the temple, know people who were THERE in 1985-1986 and remember the first group of monks the government installed, then removed

shaolin kool-aid, it rots the brain

[LFJ]

lol

Alright bud. I think this is where we part company...

Peace.

[lkfmdc]

lol

Alright bud. I think this is where we part company...

Peace.

kitchen is too hot, so you run for the door, how typical

the great shaolin temple, instead of teaching you all to be great warriors, it taught you to be little women ....

Your teacher was NOT at shaolin when you claim... like I said, I know people who were there...

get over it, or committ suicide if it bothers you so much

[wenshu]

You don't seem particularly interested in discussion of what there is to it either. That's fine. Troll on.

You can't formulate an argument with more depth than; "You would see it if you understood it but since you don't understand it I can't show it to you" so you pull the troll card. Does HW108 know you're biting his style?

There is. I say so. I actually went to this place. When I first went there there was no bus and no good road so I had to walk from the nearest town. It is well up in the mountains to the north of the temple.

History of the village says it is so. The villagers say it is so. The 90 y.o master, the village training hall with dents in the floor like the SHaolin temple, this tells me it is so. History of the other villages near it and even far say it is so. History from the Shaolin temple say it is so. The written Quan pu (manuals) they have say it is so. The language of the manuals implies it is so. The style is too different to be a recent digression and yet too similar to be not Shaolin Hong Quan (and if you have seen how similar modern wushu styles are, you know this is not a recent thing to change the method dramatically). You can literally SEE the evolution of Hong Quan when you compare this style to the current and to the other villages (one of which is the perfect intermediate, inheriting its kung fu from a monk fleeing the massacre in 1641). Shaolin culture is engraved into the mountains. Every village, every tradition. These things take many generations to form.

This style won't fit your preconception of what Shaolin looks like, because these people are not pro MA. They are farmers. They don't do this style for someone else to watch. They do it because it is the culture of their clan passed on for many generations.

Our society owes everything it is to our culture. But because it is hard to analyse, hard to know what the essence of culture is, it is disregarded. And in this time when traditional culture is crumbling beneath our feet, it is wonderful to see it preserved somewhere, and experience it.

I call it how I see it; a bunch of rural villagers that when they aren't busy squatting on their heels curbside chain smoking cheap cigarettes practice some longfist.

Don;t get me wrong, that is certainly better than 98% of what most people see but spare me the ancient wellspring of heretofore unaltered Ming era kung fu. Untouched, except of course, you found it. . . (i imagine you would be rather shocked about who knows what about this and other villages like it)

I don't doubt a connection to Shaolin; Hong quan is all over Northern China but taking oral history at face value is pure sinophilia naiveté and you have absolutely no qualifications to adequately make any of the determinations you claims as proof that these forms represent a more ancient form of kung fu.

[wenshu]

shaolin kool-aid, it rots the brain

I like my kool aid. . .

At least I know its kool aid?

[lkfmdc]

to me...

this

taking oral history at face value is pure sinophilia naiveté and you have absolutely no qualifications to adequately make any of the determinations you claims as proof that these forms represent a more ancient form of kung fu.

and this

I like my kool aid. . .

are not compatible,

unless of course

At least I know its kool aid