Shaolin Boxing before 1780

[wenshu]

bruh

this move from this form kind of resembles that move from that form

OMG WE'VE UNLOCKED THE SCRETS HISTROY OF KUMG FU

[lkfmdc]

bruh

this move from this form kind of resembles that move from that form

OMG WE'VE UNLOCKED THE SCRETS HISTROY OF KUM FU

Funny how some can see and others are so blind.....

[Scott R. Brown]

Funny how some can see and others are so blind.....

My sifu, called The Ancient One taught us, "If one can see that he is blind, can he see, or is he blind?"

He was very wise!

[lkfmdc]

My sifu, called The Ancient One taught us, "If one can see that he is blind, can he see, or is he blind?"

He was very wise!

he also smoked some really strong shit

[Lucas]

I hang out with scott's sifu, The Ancient One, every second tuesday on months that are made up of odd numbered days, and he does always have the strong sh!t. but you have to be prepared, it smells.

[Scott R. Brown]

he also smoked some really strong shit

My sifu, called The Ancient One taught us, "Smoking strong sh!t, makes you think you are wise, but really all you are is full of sh!t!"

He was very wise!

[wenshu]

The Ancient One needs better writers.

[lkfmdc]

The Ancient One needs better writers.

so do most of the shaolin crowd

[wenshu]

hiyooooooooooo

[Scott R. Brown]

I hang out with scott's sifu, The Ancient One, every second tuesday on months that are made up of odd numbered days, and he does always have the strong sh!t. but you have to be prepared, it smells.

My sifu, called The Ancient One taught us,

"Lucas never shares his sh!t or brings the munchies!"

and

"The only problem with the Shaolin crowd is that it is crowded with Shaolin!"

and

"He who looks for better writers is not right about his betters!"

He was very wise!

[GeneChing]

so do most of the shaolin crowd

I resemble that remark.

[Scott R. Brown]

My sifu, called The Ancient One taught us,

"Never dissemble the remark that you resemble!"

He was very wise!

[RenDaHai]

Don;t get me wrong, that is certainly better than 98% of what most people see but spare me the ancient wellspring of heretofore unaltered Ming era kung fu. Untouched, except of course, you found it. . . (i imagine you would be rather shocked about who knows what about this and other villages like it)

I don't doubt a connection to Shaolin; Hong quan is all over Northern China but taking oral history at face value is pure sinophilia naiveté and you have absolutely no qualifications to adequately make any of the determinations you claims as proof that these forms represent a more ancient form of kung fu.

I didn't discover it. Me and many other people have been there, its actually quite famous among traditional clans in Song Shan. I went there because I overheard it talked about.

In this case I have better qualifications than just about anyone else who speaks native English. I spent 7 years in Song Shan and I have seen hundreds of its forms. I know many. Xiao Hong Quan is my speciality. I know all 4 XHQ roads from the Xiyuan sect (current Shaolin), 1 (of 4) from the nanyuan, 1 (of 2) of Luotuoyuan, 2 of Mogou and I have seen countless other small variations of XHQ. I have conversed with Shaolin temple representatives who have identified 4 major different versions of XHQ in Song Shan, all of which were passed to their respective villages form Shaolin but in different time periods.

I have the Poems of some versions for comparison, including the one of this village.

This style it is clear to see from the form and the Quan Pu that it contains the same techniques and basic sequence as todays XHQ but with many extra movements between the key moves. It is clearly related to Changhuxinyimen, another current Shaolin form, reputed to be inspired by this village, which is easy to see.

Older? Its the same age. But the idea is that because it is preserved in the village, it would have changed less over the last 500 years than the version at Shaolin Temple. Why? Because Shaolin had people who spent all their time practicing where as in the village it is just a hobby. The monks would have been more confident to modify the techniques than the farmers.

Also looking at the other versions of XHQ for comparison you can actually see it like an evolution.

These are really the only methods we can use to analyse it. Short of carbon dating the QuanPu, but thats not gonna happen anytime soon. Much of history relies on informed conjecture, and in this case, I am informed. It is a really safe bet, and I have yet to meet one person of Song Shan who disagrees with the hypothesis that Mogou style represents an earlier version of Shaolin Hong Quan. That doesn't mean better, if anything it should be less evolved. But it is interesting never the less. Well, it is to me at least.

There are many other remote villages which contain many other strange Shaolin styles from across the centuries. It is all just sitting there in Song shan, and it won't be around forever.

[Matthew]

NO EVIDENCE that it is old
...
[they] don't have evidence to support their position
...
[I] know [as a second-hand account] people who were THERE in 1985-1986
...
what evidence do you have

Possible evidence:

-the movements themselves
-[the evidence relating to dating via postural evolution surrounding shaolin is] on the forum [in other threads]
-compare the movements and see a logical transformation [that clearly took a long period of time]
-My shifu was there and ordained.. with physical evidence

-History of the village
-Villagers [testimony]
-[Testimony of a] 90 y.o. master in that village
-History of the other villages near it
-History from the Shaolin temple
-The written Quan pu (manuals)
-The language of the manuals
-The [comparison to other villages and current village Hong Quan]

people who can't hold a logical line of argument and don't have evidence to support their position often resort to such [name calling] tactics

and then

you are deluded
..
most of the shaolin crowd are deluded
..
you are clearly a LIAR
..
take the sand out of your panties
..
committ suicide if it bothers you

[Lucas]

My sifu, called The Ancient One taught us,

"Lucas never shares his sh!t or brings the munchies!"

but the beauty of it all is that he is so wise that he knows this and still lets me kick it. thats how wise he really is!