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Thread: Can someone tell me what this is?

  1. #1
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    Can someone tell me what this is?

    Can someone tell me what this is? It is from this source:

    http://www.woodenfish.org/images/heart%20sutra.pdf

    Am i wrong to assume that this is the heart sutra? The reason i ask is because I understand that Shaolin monk generation names are based on the heart sutra in some way or another.

    Any input would be appreciated.

    -DC

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by DoGcHoW108 View Post
    Can someone tell me what this is? It is from this source:

    http://www.woodenfish.org/images/heart%20sutra.pdf

    Am i wrong to assume that this is the heart sutra? The reason i ask is because I understand that Shaolin monk generation names are based on the heart sutra in some way or another.

    Any input would be appreciated.

    -DC
    I don't read much Chinese and especially not the traditional characters, but I took a look just for fun treating it as a kind of riddle.

    If you compare the image with the text of the Sutra (at the link you provide) you can find correspondences. Following the dotted lines on the image creates various passages from the text of the Sutra.

    For example (if you enjoy this kind of thing) go to page 6 of the booklet (which is the second page of Chinese text) and start at the upper right and go down reading the first four characters. On your image (rotated to be vertical) this same sequence of four characters occurs near the top of the "pagoda" on the right hand side, at the first triangular "point" from the top sticking out to the right. The sequence is 以無所得 (yi wu suo de) which is translated in the booklet "because nothing is attained".


    Also the top of the image (the verticle line) is the title of the Sutra.

    I expect that you could find many more sequences of text from the Sutra by following the dotted lines. The enjoyment comes from the way the lines criss-cross each other, and that the diagram forms the shape of a pagoda. I would expect that this diagram is considered to have some esoteric or spiritual significance.

    Remaining to be found out: does the diagram contain every line from the Sutra in some way? Or at least every line from the gathas (doctrine expressed in pithy verse)?

    Hope this helps in some way. Sorry I can't give a more authoritative answer about the significance of the diagram.
    Last edited by rett; 06-09-2013 at 03:23 AM.

  3. #3
    Okay, I was just moving downwards on the diagram, but you can follow the dotted lines diagonally up as well and get more complete versions of the lines as well as sequences of lines.

    You can also go sideways along a row, even without a dotted line there. (edit: no, that was wrong)

    For example the line immediately preceding the incomplete line I gave above, is right before it on the diagram. (see the last line on page 4 of the booklet, bottom left)

    Edit: Coffee kicking in, of course it probably is all there because the Sutra is so short.

    Edit: Here's an explanation on the copyright page of the booklet

    Illustration of five-tiered pagoda compose of the characters from the Prajnaparamit Heart Sutra.... The title forms the spire of the pagoda and the sutra begins (and ends) just below the Buddha in the center.
    Oh, well, it was fun anyhow.
    Last edited by rett; 06-09-2013 at 07:23 AM.

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    That's neat. I've never seen that before.

    I traced the lines start to finish. Oddly it's missing the last character of the mantra. I guess it didn't fit in the end.


  5. #5
    I just finished tracing it in four different highlight colours, I also found the last character wasn't there.

    Now I'm going to post it on the refrigerator like a proud kindergartner. This was fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoGcHoW108 View Post
    The reason i ask is because I understand that Shaolin monk generation names are based on the heart sutra in some way or another.
    I believe that's the first batch of disciples under Shi Yanming in NYC that took characters of the Heart Sutra as the given portion (third character) of their names. The generation names (second character) are drawn from a 70 character poem written by Xueting Fuyu (1203–1275), Shaolin abbot during the Song Dynasty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    Now I'm going to post it on the refrigerator like a proud kindergartner. This was fun.
    Ha, I don't have a printer. Maybe desktop.

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    Thanks for all the (very quick!) responses.

    I have been unable to verify any particular person or time that this Sutra is attributed to, which honestly makes me like it more.

    currently at the level when i am just getting acquainted with the sutra itself- words, phraises, purpose. this seems to be a buddhist teaching about transcendent wisdom and how to refine the process of , well...tapping into it.

    I have found this, Patanjali's yoga sutras and the bahgavad gita very interesting in terms of their overlapping applicability to meditative practice.

    does anyone know why ch'an in particular (and mahayana more broadly) seem to have universally adopted the heart sutra into their canons?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DoGcHoW108 View Post
    does anyone know why ch'an in particular (and mahayana more broadly) seem to have universally adopted the heart sutra into their canons?
    I believe the reason is that it is considered to contain the most essential teaching in a very concise format. It's also beautifully expressed and a good length for frequent chanting.

    “Most longer sutras emphasize various individual aspects of Buddhadharma from many perspectives, but the Heart Sutra, just over a page long, distills the teachings of the Buddha to their purest, clearest, most concise essence.” — Chan Master Sheng-Yen

    Thich Nhat Hanh’s commentary
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heart-Unders...dp/1888375922/

    Sheng-Yen's commentary (and source of the quote above)
    http://www.amazon.com/There-No-Suffe.../dp/1556433859

    Heart Sutra (in Chinese) recitation
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OXGM0CArAw

    Heart Sutra (in Sanskrit) set to music by Imee Ooi
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Gb9ZN-61I
    Last edited by rett; 06-10-2013 at 12:04 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoGcHoW108 View Post
    I have been unable to verify any particular person or time that this Sutra is attributed to, which honestly makes me like it more.
    The Chinese translation is attributed to Xuanzang (602-664) in the Tang Dynasty. The sutra itself also has longer opening and closing passages where the scene is set. Basically, it's Avalokiteshvara speaking in response to a question by Shariputra in the presence of the Buddha who at the end approves the message. Legend has it Xuanzang personally received the sutra from Avalokiteshvara on his Journey to the West.

    does anyone know why ch'an in particular (and mahayana more broadly) seem to have universally adopted the heart sutra into their canons?
    The full name of the sutra is the Prajnaparamita Heart (as in core) Sutra. It is actually the core of the PP literature which is veeery exhaustive (thousands of lines) and contains this sort of mini-sutra as well as the also popular Diamond Sutra.

    Now, PP is the central and essential teaching of Mahayana and therefore all Mahayana schools, hence the ubiquity of this "core" sutra. No PP, No Mahayana.

    Unfortunately, the Heart Sutra is so wonderfully succinct that everyone and their brother has an interpretation of it, some more out there than others. I always suggest rather than studying a number of "interpretations" on it, to get a further understanding of it's message, study the actual Prajnaparamita literature as in depth as you can so you know what it actually says. That's always the best method, I find.

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