Shaolin Europe Association & Shaolin Association of North America

[HmorenoM]

Well, i don't know if this thread has been around already, but this just capted my attention for some reasons.

http://www.shaolin-europe.org/en/members.html

Here, we can see the members of the SEA, ok, just european countries are there, obvious, but... in Spain, for example, there is just 1 "school" ( http://www.shaolinspain.com/ ), of a Shi De Yang's disciple (Bruno Tombolato). But there's another school in Spain ( http://shaolin-wuxing.com/ ) of a Shi Heng Jun's disciple, and well, i don't know why the SEA doesn't consider that SHJ school as an official member... (i don't know why the word "money" comes to my mind )

And well... Shaolin Association of North America... what is that? i've never heard / read about that before

If you people can enlight me with your knowledge... Maybe i'm just being ignorant and i'm asking stupid things but... well... i just want to know

Thanks again

[LFJ]

Well, it does say you have to apply for membership. Maybe that school isn't all that interested and hasn't applied. If they're doing alright by themselves, I don't blame them.

[HmorenoM]

Well, yeah, i can understand that, but... who says how legit is a shaolin "school"?
why is "shaolin" such controversial?

[LFJ]

Even Shaolin itself is not legit, if you ask me... So, I don't care.

[Alex Córdoba]

Here http://shaolin-wuxing.com/ you can read:

"Shaolin Temple Spain es el único Centro en España reconocido por el Templo
de Shaolin en China, bajo la supervisión del maestro Shi Heng Jun, y bajo la
bendición del patriarca Shi Yong Xing y el Abad Shi Yan Fo."

If you don't know spanish let me translate you the last part:

"...with the blessings of Patriarch Shi Yong Shin and the abbot Shi Yan Fo"

Sometimes controversial is the word.

[HmorenoM]

No problems with spanish, is my native language. And well, the other spanish school says kinda the same...

http://www.shaolinspain.com/quienes-somos/

"Nuestro Centro está certificado por el Maestro Shi De Yang y el Templo Shaolin de China."

"Our center is certified by Master Shi De Yang and China Shaolin Temple"

So both schools are the one and the only? xD funny huh?

Well, if someone else has an opinion, feel free to tell, is always interesting. But please let's not create another controversy here xD

[LFJ]

Well, one is "with the blessing" and the other is "certified". Obviously only one is a member of the SEA.

However, I've seen Bruno previously studying under Shi Miaozhi- disciple of Shi Hengjun who was an instructor at that other school in Madrid at the time. Only in the last couple years has Bruno begun visiting Shi Deyang's school in China, and through help of Deyang's translator he has been able to invite him to Spain.

So basically, it seems the two schools have the same background (Hengjun lineage), and recently Bruno has sought out Deyang. That's about all I've observed though. I have no experience with either school.

[GeneChing]

SANA was launched as part of the 1st Shaolin Summit in 2011. We covered that extensively. It hasn't made that much progress since then (can't find their original website now and their facebook page has only 29 likes), unless you count the upcoming 1st American Shaolin Festival. The organizing committee listed for the Festival is the North American Shaolin Federation. Is that SANA? I don't know for sure.

[ShaolinDiva]

Well, that original SANA was put together when the Abbot was here last in conjunction with the summit in 2011. There hasn't been much going on except for the festival coming up this October.

Officially , now , Shi YanXu has been more of a key player as he was always very close to the Abbot as he was one of his former assistants. Shi Yan Xu also runs the the Shaolin Temple Cultural Centers of America in Southern California. Shi YanXu also has standardized the forms for belt testing and will implement that at the festival in October for other Shaolin schools as well.

The North American Shaolin Federation was formed in 2011to unify North America Shaolin schools and to promote the camaraderie of Shaolin students, masters and the Shaolin culture as a whole in North America. Basically , the Abbot wanted to unify all of the Shaolin schools and traditionalize the forms based according to the books that were donated to the USA library of Congress.

Those 3 books that were donated are : Qigong, Shaolin Medicine and Shaolin Kung Fu.

(Yes I have seen them with my own eyes as well. I thought I was looking into Pandora's box )

I've been Yan Xu's student for about 3 years (unfortunately he doesn't teach anymore the public anymore). I can vouch that there definitely is a Shaolin culture that is deeply rooted in the 3 gems of Shaolin which are exactly - Shaolin medicine, Chan Buddhism, shaolin Kung Fu (inclusive of Qigong BaduanJiun and YijinJiing) . All those 3 aspects are the core of Shaolin.

[LFJ]

Shi YanXu also has standardized the forms for belt testing and will implement that at the festival in October for other Shaolin McWuguan's* as well.

If you can't test someone on their kung fu because the form is different than the way you do it, you don't have a very good understanding of kung fu. Standardizing the forms also tells me you don't care about traditional Shaolin and all it's variations.

Standardization will be the death of what makes Shaolin useful.

[DamoY2K]

In Spain at the moment there are big arguments between the aforementioned schools about who is "legit" ..... which itself makes no sense at all .....

LFJ is right, Bruno Tombolato is not a disciple of Master Shi Deyang, he has been studying with him for a just couple of years and has invited him twice to teach in Spain as far as I saw advertised in Europe; before that he was studying with various Fawang teachers, both chinese and spanish.

So all the arguing spanish Shaolin schools have a common Hengjun lineage yet they are all arguing to be the "legit" one .....

[ShaolinDiva]

If you can't test someone on their kung fu because the form is different than the way you do it, you don't have a very good understanding of kung fu. Standardizing the forms also tells me you don't care about traditional Shaolin and all it's variations.

Standardization will be the death of what makes Shaolin useful.

First of all, you don't know me and what my knowledge of Shaolin , kung fu or martial arts at all except for some of my words that you already misconstrued.

I personally do not agree with belt testing. From a personal side note- these decisions that were made were very difficult and in conjunction with the Abbot and our temple. Most shifus/masters do not truly like it but they also see the implementation of testing makes the students also challenge themselves.

That being said, everybody knows that in Asia , belt testing is not necessary and definitely an American product .

It isn't like they give the belts away either- kids do cry if they don't pass. They must memorize and recite the names of each of the individual movements within the form in CHINESE (which isn't easy for nonspeaking chinese) as they are doing the form. They meditate, do the horse stance for whatever amount of time based on whatever level you're testing for.

It isn't as easy as you may think. and don't' judge until you've been in somebody else's shoes. Its ok to give your opinion if you experienced it or even have seen it personally within your eyes but you're making ASSumptions based on a few words.

[GeneChing]

Is the Shaolin Association of North America the same or connected to the North American Shaolin Federation? Is there a website for either org? I seem to remember a website for SANA, and I could have sworn we posted it on one of the SANA-related threads here, but I wasn't able to find it on a cursory search.

As for standardization, it's difficult to test with out that. Unless we rebuild a wooden man hall.

[pazman]

That being said, everybody knows that in Asia , belt testing is not necessary and definitely an American product .

Nope.

If that were true, then why do traditional Western martial arts not do belt testing?

[pazman]

As for standardization, it's difficult to test with out that. Unless we rebuild a wooden man hall.

Except skill in taolu doesn't indicate skill in martial arts.