Is JKD and MMA the same thing basically?

[Stickgrappler]

Hello:

*bows deeply*

As this is a Kung Fu forum, this may not be lost on members

I feel to claim JKD (despite BL saying forget the name and set curriculum) there has to be a lineage traceable back to BL.

Many of the JKD instructors can trace their lineage back to BL via Dan Inosanto or his students e.g. Paul Vunak, Cass Magda, Chris Kent, Jerry Poteet, Larry Hartsell, etc.

Otherwise, why even call it JKD?

Can you use the JKD Philosophy? I think so. MMA is IMO JKD Philosophy in action.

~sg

[David Jamieson]

Hello:

*bows deeply*

As this is a Kung Fu forum, this may not be lost on members

I feel to claim JKD (despite BL saying forget the name and set curriculum) there has to be a lineage traceable back to BL.

Many of the JKD instructors can trace their lineage back to BL via Dan Inosanto or his students e.g. Paul Vunak, Cass Magda, Chris Kent, Jerry Poteet, Larry Hartsell, etc.

Otherwise, why even call it JKD?

Can you use the JKD Philosophy? I think so. MMA is IMO JKD Philosophy in action.

~sg

JKD is a concept, NOT a style.

JKD is about using your art no matter what it is. TO internalize your art form and to know it intrinsically and extrinsically.

JKD applies to mma, boxing, kung fu, fencing, karate, wrestling, you name it and you can employ the concept to free yourself to use that within your art that YOU find most usable.

lineage in jkd is laughable in that sense. Even BL taught Jun Fan kung fu (his own style because he didn't actually have a style that he could lay claim to) as a foundation. It was only afterwards taht he would give the concept to already established martial artists.

Over time, people want to associate themselves with him, make themselves famous through association and then make claims of having inherited jkd...

The bottom line is still this in martial arts: Repetition is the mother of skill.

[Stickgrappler]

I agree it's a concept - and again although BL didn't want a style, it is a style per se even as you noted. The set curriculum that Dan Inosanto called Jun Fan Gung Fu is what BL set as the foundation. Others have been labelled "Original JKD" while doing that foundation.

I may be doing what the JKD concept is all about by absorbing what is useful to me, but i shouldn't call what i do JKD as I have no affiliation/no lineage/no connection whatsoever to BL. I'll just calle it Stickgrappler-do or Stickgrappler-Kuen or Stickgrappler-Pai. Why bother to even mention JKD?

As you noted, to cash in is probably the biggest reason.

This is one topic that will argued from both sides until infinity sadly.

[KungFubar]

I agree it's a concept - and again although BL didn't want a style, it is a style per se even as you noted. The set curriculum that Dan Inosanto called Jun Fan Gung Fu is what BL set as the foundation. Others have been labelled "Original JKD" while doing that foundation.

I may be doing what the JKD concept is all about by absorbing what is useful to me, but i shouldn't call what i do JKD as I have no affiliation/no lineage/no connection whatsoever to BL. I'll just calle it Stickgrappler-do or Stickgrappler-Kuen or Stickgrappler-Pai. Why bother to even mention JKD?

As you noted, to cash in is probably the biggest reason.

This is one topic that will argued from both sides until infinity sadly.

I thought JKD means 'no style' so why shouldnt you call what you do JKD? In other words if you arent using a specific style then it can be called JKD? Wasnt that BLs whole message? Q: What style do you practice? A: no style just my own thing aka JKD? No?

[Stickgrappler]

Technically JKD means 'intercepting fist way'

My issue is why even call it JKD of the 'thing' you do? Call it "Kungfubar-Do" or "kungfubar-Pai"

That should be 'your own thing'... jkd's is BL's own thing. Know what i mean?

[Kymus]

Over time, people want to associate themselves with him, make themselves famous through association and then make claims of having inherited jkd...

So Dan Inosanto was never certified as a full instructor under Bruce Lee?

It's my understanding that Dan Inosanto was the only person to receive the 3rd level (full instructor) and I think it was Ted Wong (?) that was level 2 before Bruce Lee died and Dan Inosanto promoted him to full instructor.

JKD is a concept, NOT a style.

JKD is about using your art no matter what it is. TO internalize your art form and to know it intrinsically and extrinsically.

JKD applies to mma, boxing, kung fu, fencing, karate, wrestling, you name it and you can employ the concept to free yourself to use that within your art that YOU find most usable.

In general, JKD is not just whatever. It has specific techniques, specific strategies, and a base. I learned it from Sifu Rick Tucci, who is certified under Dan Inosanto. JKD can exist as a specific style (Chinese kickboxing with some Wing Chun thrown in) or it can be used as a frame to build off of and see what works for you.

Lots of JKD teachers add in some influences from other styles, but every time I've seen JKD, it looks like JKD.

[Kymus]

Technically JKD means 'intercepting fist way'

My issue is why even call it JKD of the 'thing' you do? Call it "Kungfubar-Do" or "kungfubar-Pai"

That should be 'your own thing'... jkd's is BL's own thing. Know what i mean?

I agree. Calling whatever one does JKD is not accurate. JKD is Bruce Lee's method, and that method is built upon a specific foundation.

[Kymus]

I thought JKD means 'no style' so why shouldnt you call what you do JKD? In other words if you arent using a specific style then it can be called JKD? Wasnt that BLs whole message? Q: What style do you practice? A: no style just my own thing aka JKD? No?

Jeet Kune Do has a set foundation: Wing Chun, Savate, and Boxing, mostly.

Jeet Kune Do has a certification process. The only thing is, is that most JKD instructors (at least the ones I've seen) all cross train. My instructor does BJJ, Capoeira, Savate, Silat, Muay Thai, and Escrima/Kali in addition to JKD. It's likely that some of that got put in to his JKD curriculum. But at the end of the day, JKD is a specific thing; whether it's a foundation to finding one's way or as a set art. It's not just whatever.

JKD is a term, and as such, it is used to describe something. Like Stickgrappler said, JKD means "Way of the intercepting fist". In JKD we train primarily with punching, kicking, and trapping/locking.

[KungFubar]

Technically JKD means 'intercepting fist way'

My issue is why even call it JKD of the 'thing' you do? Call it "Kungfubar-Do" or "kungfubar-Pai"

That should be 'your own thing'... jkd's is BL's own thing. Know what i mean?

yes i get what you mean but the moment you call it something like Kungfubar Chuan it becomes a set style which goes against the essence of jkd which is 'no style'. using no style as style. no particular style. To say other is to undo everything that BL was trying to accomplish to end style vs style.

[KungFubar]

I agree. Calling whatever one does JKD is not accurate. JKD is Bruce Lee's method, and that method is built upon a specific foundation.

would bruce lee agree with this statement?

[Kymus]

would bruce lee agree with this statement?

Beats me; but it seems that Dan Inosanto does; he's closest thing we'll ever get.

[Kymus]

yes i get what you mean but the moment you call it something like Kungfubar Chuan it becomes a set style which goes against the essence of jkd which is 'no style'. using no style as style. no particular style. To say other is to undo everything that BL was trying to accomplish to end style vs style.

What is JKD but a framework based on what Bruce Lee felt worked best for him?

By giving it your name, it's your way; you make no qualms about it being anything else for anyone else.

Terms are important for distinction. In Martial Arts, terminology is important; it helps to distinguish what something is. We can use MMA as an example. MMA generally includes BJJ and Muay Thai, but not everyone does it, and not everyone that does Muay Thai and BJJ then does MMA. MMA is a broad term used to define - generally - straightforward, very hands-on arts. But there are still some things that people look for in what is called MMA, like wrestling. Like I mentioned in another thread, Master Su Yu-Chang teaches something like 10 different arts, all traditional Chinese arts. If he opened a school and called it MMA (which is it, it's a combination of a number of different arts), he'd most likely catch flack for that.

So in this sense, JKD defines the framework that Bruce Lee designed and taught based on what worked best for him. Some JKD teachers may add in influences from other arts, but unless you radically change the movements, it's still JKD: boxing, savate, and wing chun, mostly.

[mawali]

Absorb what is useful to one's ability then eschew the rest since it serves no purpose. How simple can that be but that is an oversimplification.

If you can't kick then don't try. make sure your hands are better, faster, etc
If you want to learn how to kick, work smarter, harder and based on that, train accordingly with incorporation of said kick.

[lance]

Since they are choosing the best of techniques and combinging them?

KungFubar , to me JKD and MMA is 2 - different martial arts . MMA as the way I see it is basically a combination of muay thai , judo , and jujitsu . I see MMA all over the youtube and on cable tv , so I know what it is ? Muay Thai is good the kicking is all there and you have punches like western boxing , and you can use elbows too . But , muay thai is limited with striking techniques , like backfist , palm strike and other striking arsenal . But since you judo and jujutsu the ground work is completely covered there . And besides the punches , hooks , upper cuts and elbows , you can ' t use palm strikes or backfist like the striking art do . I ' m not putting down muay thai , but it ' s the way I see it .

JKD is basically bruce lee ' s own personal legacy , which really contains everything which was basically workable for bruce himself . We ' re not bruce and bruce is not us , so we all have to adapt with the techniques bruce himself incorporated into his personal JKD . But ! Yeah ! I do agree that JKD is misleading , but yes , it ' s really incorporating techniques from different martial arts in general which is bascally useful for you . And JKD is basically wing chun , boxing and fencing . Because , the stances which are used in JKD is from fencing , the way the JKD people guard their bodies when when facing an opponent is boxing , but the hand techniques is from wing chun . In JKD the taun sao is ' nt used , but certain JKD people use it in their JKD . And JKD uses punching , striking , throwing , kicking , elbows , and grappling . So MMA is half of JKD . And escrima sticks too , since bruce learned escrima from Dan .

Like the grappling section , if the opponent were to grapple with me , I would do anything to get out of the opponents' grappling move , by doing anything I can use striking him in the face , you see if I were to use grappling on the opponent himself , it can turn out to be a chess game . And I can get tired and the opponent may in turn have the advantage over me . So to reallly avoid this things from happening to me , I would get out of the opponents' grappling move or hold the minute I get the chance otherwise I ' m in trouble already .

If you ever saw youtube interviews on people who really trained with bruce himself in JKD and MMA people , you can tell the differences already . But ! yeah ! According to dana white the man incharge of MMA said that Bruce Lee was the father of MMA . This is just my own perspective on JKD and MMA .

[Fa Xing]

It's actually Modified Wing Chun, Modified Western Boxing, and Modified Western Fencing. There is no Savate per-say, however, that doesn't mean he didn't like a technique from it. Bruce did a lot of research but JKD is not a mish-mash of styles, it's hardly a mish-mash of techniques.

There is a set curriculum that is taught in the beginning, after that it is about mastery. The older I get the more I think about how mastery is the art of simplifying what you know and do.

It should also be noted that I have never seen any other person develop, or pass down the way Bruce did the Straight Lead, and Pendulum Kicks. Those were Bruce's creations based on what he learned from training, and researching.

JKD and MMA have similar beginnings, in that both sprouted in response to the MA climate of Mouth-boxing. Bruce's goal was to find the simplest, most effective means to achieve victory in combat (which eventually came down to the art of fighting without fighting). It was as much of a spiritual journey for him as it was martially.

However, in terms of technical skill and structure, and combat philosophy, the two can be very different. It is important to note that MMA is a garbage-can term for what people do in a ring/cage. It's up to the individual.

Happy training.